Hi, friends, and welcome to her Empire Builder show. I have a very special guest for you today, the fabulous Cherie Canning. I have been following Cherie online for years and this is what I love about social media, right? Is all of the different people that we get to kind of cyberstalk along the way and go, oh, I like that person. Let's watch them for a while. And then we sat next to each other at Christine Cochran's Unstoppable Women podcast. Not podcast, her live event day that I was speaking at last year. So in 2025, and I went and I sat next to Cherie and was like, oh my gosh, it's Sheree from the Internet. And she was like, oh my gosh, it's Tina Tower.

Main Episode

Tina Tower [00:00:47]:
And such a sweet story. She started her podcast because of my free podcast guide that I put out years ago. So it is like a little bit of a side note for everyone. You never know who's watching and who's listening and who's paying attention. And I know that often in this current world of social media, oh my gosh, it's so different than it was years ago where we could actually have full blown conversations with people in the comments of our posts. Now it's kind of like, hello, is this thing on? Is anybody there? And I want you to keep going because I can't tell you how many people I talk to whenever I get out from my own little bubble and go into other places and spaces and they're like, oh my gosh, I love when you talked about this and I loved when you did this and I was watching along when you did that. And I mean, a part of me is always like, really drop a comment on there guys, like help a girl out. But we've got to do that to everyone.

Tina Tower [00:01:44]:
And so I want you to know that there are always people watching. There are always people listening. And you never know when that's going to come around. But everything comes around. You keep showing up, you keep serving people, you keep being consistent. It always all comes around. Okay, so let me tell you a little bit about Cherie before we get into this conversation because we're talking a lot about leadership, a lot about self leadership. Self leadership is really what I wanted to talk to Sheree about, even though she talks a lot about helping leaders grow.

Tina Tower [00:02:15]:
So Cherie has a company called Luminate Leadership. She's a keynote speaker, and she's a host of her own fabulous podcast, Lead with Courage. She is a seasoned leadership expert and facilitator, helping organizations build courageous Leaders and thriving cultures. Known for her warmth, optimism and infectious energy, Sheree believes that curious, connected and courageous leaders who know themselves deeply are the ones who make everyone around them rise. And we are talking a little bit about her journey in when Covid hit and she was like, oh my gosh, I've been made redundant. I've never thought about going into my own business before and then pivoted and did that. And I find it phenomenal how quickly she has risen because, you know, for someone that didn't have entrepreneurial goals, she's really embraced the whole entrepreneurship game very, very well. So there's going to be a lot of tips about her business journey, but also about leadership and your own self leadership.

Tina Tower [00:03:14]:
So I hope you enjoy this conversation with the fabulous Cherie Canning. Hello, gorgeous Cherie. Welcome to her Empire Builder Show.

Cherie Canning [00:03:23]:
Thank you, Tina. It is so wonderful to be here with you and your listeners and community. Thanks for having me.

Tina Tower [00:03:29]:
I love it. And anyone that's watching us on YouTube, Cherie is on vacation at the moment. She's got the beach in the background. It's looking gorgeous.

Cherie Canning [00:03:37]:
Beautiful day here on the Gold Coast.

Tina Tower [00:03:40]:
Now you are. I know you from leadership. That is the main thing when I think of you, I think she's the leadership chick. And so that's a lot of what I want to talk to you about today. And I know you've built your whole career around helping others to lead better. But I would love to start with you. What experiences did you have that shaped your like early understandings of leadership and what it was and what got you interested in it?

Cherie Canning [00:04:07]:
Yeah. Yeah, Great. I think going back, I would say there's two pivotal moments. One is my dad. My dad is a soccer player and I say is because he's in the over 70s walking football team for Australia these days. So he's still. Oh my gosh, that's so cool. Yes.

Cherie Canning [00:04:25]:
In world championships. Yeah, it's unbelievable. But he was a really good football player and then went on to be a great coach. So I think I learned very early around what great coaching looks like, what great leadership looks like. They're developing others. And then I also was really involved in student council, school captain in high school. So I think that I'm on the stage at school, school assembly, you know, just couldn't wait for the next Tuesday to be on assembly microphone again. So a lot of those experiences I think, you know, really it's no surprise that then I'm here doing this work now.

Tina Tower [00:05:02]:
Yeah. And was there a moment where you were already Established in your career where you thought the way we're doing leadership right now isn't working and you wanted to do something differently.

Cherie Canning [00:05:14]:
You know, if I'm really honest, Tina, I think that that moment came out of necessity rather than innovation for me. I was working in a large multinational travel company for a very long time, for 17 years at Flight Center. And so at that time I was running a lot of development programs and training and I loved it, absolutely loved it. And as we recall, 2020 and the travel industry did not mix well with COVID So at the end of 2020, when I was made redundant, I was then on the mission of, well, what's the next part of my career? And so that's when I had experienced at Flight center firsthand the depths of having one on one coaching workshops and training, keynote speaking, but also integrating that into people's business. I suppose when you're looking at teams and in big organizations and the impact that can have on you individually, realizing the stretch that it has, you know, on people's families, their whole lives. So that's when we started Luminate. Well, that's when I started Luminate Leadership from the. At the end of 2020, having a real passion and love, love for what I've been exposed to and wanting to create that for others as well.

Tina Tower [00:06:23]:
There's so many amazing businesses born out of necessity in the COVID time. But there would have been, you know, after 17 years in corporate, I just want to ask you about that, that jump too, because there's Covid times, normal times, there's a lot of people that are listening that have corporate jobs or have traditional business businesses and do that. How scary was it to go into business for yourself after 17 years? Because I'm always curious at this because I've never had a full time job. That must be wild to leave such security and do it like, did you have a short Runway? Were you like, I have to make this work in six months. Did you have like, what was that startup like for you? And how did you deal with that pressure?

Cherie Canning [00:07:08]:
Yeah, yeah. Thank you. I think it's really interesting to reflect on actually, because at the end of March 2020, when Covid actually, you know, began to be a thing, we were stood down indefinitely. And then I got made redundant in the November. So I had a seven month period there where actually I was working in a call center with a whole heap of people from flight center and the travel industry and the call center.

Tina Tower [00:07:33]:
We were in uncertain time.

Cherie Canning [00:07:36]:
Oh my gosh. And this was like such an Unveiling of your actual mindset, your, your, your ego connected to a job, your own values. And in this. The call center we were in was actually a Services Australia. So a Centrelink triage call center. So when people are ringing saying I've lost my job, what do I do? There was too many calls for Services Australia, as you can imagine. So we were a thousand person call center that got pulled up in 10 days in person when the rest of Australia was locked down. We were in person, you know, necessary workers and we were all in the washing machine of our own uncertainty and then in the uncertainty of COVID So it was.

Cherie Canning [00:08:23]:
I wish I'd recorded things because it would be an incredible documentary to watch back. Just how humans react. And so in that time we, we were waiting. I mean honestly, we were in the flight center building as well. So they leased it back and we were seeing the CEO and the senior leadership and there was no way I was coming back. You know, leadership training in a company that's about, possibly about to go bust, hardly essential work. So I had a seven month period before we, I was made officially redundant. And so in that time I started looking for work.

Cherie Canning [00:08:56]:
And it was really interesting how I was initially just going, I'll find somewhere else, I'll find somewhere else, I'll find something similar.

Tina Tower [00:09:05]:
So you never like harbored the desire to start your own business?

Cherie Canning [00:09:08]:
Not in the beginning. And I think that that came from just not believing I could. And it wasn't until the end of that time that a friend of mine just said why? Because I was going to this other guy who was going to be a startup and he had no ip, no connections or community, nothing. He just had this idea to run leadership training. So it wasn't even that novel. And my friend said, why would you go and do that for someone else? You could do your own. And I honestly kind of had that moment. When could I and how would I know how to do it? And what do you even financially, how do you set one up? I really hadn't even considered it.

Cherie Canning [00:09:45]:
But the minute that, that friend. I'm just so grateful for those people in your life, the ones that challenge you but also like push you and support you. Yeah, your challenge tribe. And she's like, why would you go and make someone else that money? You could just do it yourself. And yeah, that was that moment. I needed to go, maybe I could. So we both, my husband Andy and I both got made redundant within a month of each other from flight.

Tina Tower [00:10:10]:
Gosh.

Cherie Canning [00:10:11]:
Yeah. So we're both on Stand down the same time then redundant. So we did get a payout and I was 17 years here, he was 13. So it wasn't as lucrative as you imagine because it was like minimum, because it was covert times, but we still got to pay out. And so I remember mapping out a budget and saying, well, what would it cost to run this business? How long do we have? What is the Runway? And we agreed that if I did not get a single booking In, I had 12 months to get like, actually.

Tina Tower [00:10:41]:
Oh, gosh, I'm like, that's ages. Never at risk of not happening.

Cherie Canning [00:10:46]:
Yeah. And we're like, before we'd run like, that would mean like one, this is definitely not a thing and two, we'd have no money left at all. So we're okay. This is a pretty safe bet. And it wasn't, I suppose, in the way that it's a services based role. It wasn't. There was no big investment into anything to get started other than social, you know, getting a bit of marketing behind me. But yeah, and your own personal brand leveraging 17 years of that really was what it took.

Tina Tower [00:11:16]:
Yeah. And so you have come a long way with Luminate in. I mean, I know it probably feels like a long time, but it's a relatively short time for business.

Cherie Canning [00:11:24]:
Yeah.

Tina Tower [00:11:26]:
Business model. Because you do, you do like high end consulting and coaching and online and you've got your podcast and there's a whole lot of there that you've built with the personal brand. How did you decide on the behavior business model? Did you pick that early? Did it. Has it morphed over time? How has that developed for you? Because I love, I mean, I love business models.

Cherie Canning [00:11:46]:
Yeah. Well, it's interesting because, I mean, I don't know if anyone would write a book on saying that the way I did it would be technically the way, you know, that you'd recommend it. But actually, you know, there's that Venn diagram that you see around. What are you good at? What does the world need? What is something people would pay for and what are you passionate about? And for me, that is actually for sale. Facilitating workshops and speaking. And so when I looked at that, and particularly the speaking, something I'm building on now as we're growing and developing the workshops though, I went, okay, I have, I've got a decade of running workshops. I know how to create an environment for people in a room. I know the content.

Cherie Canning [00:12:29]:
I've just got to start there. And that is, that's where it started. And I think that's where most People don't knew me from. So then things like the podcast that was inspired by you actually talking about your ecosystem and allowing people a little insight into you before, then they invest in you, like podcasting.

Tina Tower [00:12:48]:
For anyone listening who doesn't have a podcast, like, get on it. It's. I have people say to me all the time, like, has that ship sailed? Like, everyone seems to have a podcast now, but I'm like, you know, you're on my podcast. There's hundreds of people listening, listening that some of them won't know who you are. And they've now got this introduction to you and go, oh, hang on, who's Cherie Katney? I'll go look her up. And like, it's such a beautiful way to suss people out, get people's stories. Like, I just think podcasting is awesome.

Cherie Canning [00:13:16]:
Yeah, I love them too. And I feel that they're just the right place in the right time for the mood people are in. What do they want to tune into? And yeah, I feel like you. You can go back and listen to them over and over again and what do you pick out the next time? And yes, so it pieces around, I think even the coaching and the consulting, I would say they're not the center of the business. The center of the business would be around those workshops and the speaking and then additionally around the edges, if you like. They're still important pieces, but the majority of where I spend my time is in that workshop and speaking.

Tina Tower [00:13:50]:
Yeah. And so talking about. About your business and the way that you're running that, how. What have you had to unlearn the most? From leading yourself in a corporate environment to leading yourself with no boss.

Cherie Canning [00:14:05]:
Yeah, the. The unlearn. I think that there's a few things I unlearning and relearning commercials. I think understanding the value of things and.

Tina Tower [00:14:24]:
Yeah, like pricing yourself.

Cherie Canning [00:14:27]:
Yeah, I'm like, just sitting here just ruminating on the question a little. I think the pricing in. When I worked in a huge business, they did internal pricing. So the things were still priced, but there was internal pricing. So that gave me a little bit of a guide of what a per day or coaching, etc. So then really getting out into the real world and going, what is normal? What is a standard rate? But the difference was what I need to unlearn is that you are worthy of speaking about pricing about you. Like, that's. That's still, for me, a challenge at times where you say that to me

Tina Tower [00:15:03]:
all the time and going, like, what am I worth? Am I really worth that. I'm like, no, no, you can't look at it like we are selling ourselves as a commodity.

Cherie Canning [00:15:12]:
Yes. And that is a. That is a really tricky, unique way of seeing things, isn't it? Because in the past it wasn't at all. And I think even I go back to earlier in my career, you're selling travel, you were selling someone else's product and so now you're like, you're selling you. So, yeah, that I think the mind shift around worth and worthiness and I've always felt confident and worthy that I'm doing a good job. But then when you put your actual dollar amount next to your name, like there's just something in that where it's not someone else's. So that and the reminder that actually even when you are the leader and the buck stops with you, you still need people guiding you. I think I didn't have to unlearn that the hard way, but it was something that I engaged with very, very quickly.

Cherie Canning [00:16:02]:
And that you still need coaches, you still need people giving you feedback and advice. You need people to challenge you because your own echo chamber is not always a great place to be.

Tina Tower [00:16:13]:
Yeah, I was talking to one of my clients about this just earlier today in going. I've been in business nearly 22 years, so very like my whole life and I have always had either or both at the same time. A private coach, a coaching group that I'm part of. So I'm sorry, surrounded by other people that are like in the arena with me at the same level at the same time. And a psychologist, like a traditional normal psychologist. I'm like, so much of success, I think is, yes, the strategy and being able to implement that and know the next steps, but also like, why do we do what we do when we know what we know, like, how do we get ourselves to do the thing and when we don't do something that we know, like everyone knows something that they could do right now to grow their business, but it's like, why don't we do that thing is it very rarely has anything to do with strategy. It's all to do with like our self belief completely.

Cherie Canning [00:17:08]:
And I think that's where I'm. I couldn't agree more. And you know, I'm sitting here talking with you and I see over the side of my computer is my journal next to the bed. And then, you know, I agree around multiple coaches, multiple groups and that will come. You know, you go through circumstances, seasons with that, don't you? This group will really be a great season. And then you need something with a different, a different niche attached to it, but absolutely constant, constant inspiration, constant challenge, support. And I think that's where actually over the last few years in particular, I look at the work we're doing at Luminate is. I am so convinced the most important thing we can do in leadership is work on the self leadership.

Cherie Canning [00:17:47]:
And that's like where you're talking about there. Yes. The strategy. Yes. And whether it's people building businesses and have teams or whether it's working on their own in their business, you can have all. Yeah, I agree with you. You can have all the beautiful strategies and the plans and we need those. We actually do need those.

Cherie Canning [00:18:03]:
But it's us when we working within and the inner work and the self leadership first or always front of mind. That's when I think we see the dial moving.

Tina Tower [00:18:13]:
Yeah. And I've heard you talk a lot about humans centered leadership. What does that actually look like in practice? Like beyond the buzzword of like the human.

Cherie Canning [00:18:23]:
Yeah, yeah, beyond like right now. AI and human and. Yeah, yeah.

Tina Tower [00:18:27]:
Like what does that actually mean? And how can people implement more of that?

Cherie Canning [00:18:31]:
Yeah, I feel like if you were to summarize it into three buckets and tell me if this is still too buzzwordy and we'll break it down.

Tina Tower [00:18:39]:
It's one thing like I always, I always put stick on my members that have had long call corporate careers because so much I'm like less word salad. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like just say it like it is like cut through the messaging and there's always all this beautiful language. But the thing is, you're doing training in corporates as well. Like you're running training for corporate. So you actually kind of still need the buzzword.

Cherie Canning [00:19:03]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. And it's about blending, isn't it? Because also people just, I think they detach from too much jargon and buzzwords and like the overdone fluffy stuff. But then there are some things that are cliche for a reason because you're like, okay, these are universal. So for me, when I think about this human leadership and like the human centered leadership, I think there's one key word which is connection. So I think there's connection within. So it's understanding yourself, understanding your patterns, your belief sets, your personality, your style. Like it's really like connecting within. But I also think when we talk about this connecting within, it's around understanding your hijacks, you know, understanding your brain and how do you regulate your system so real Emotional intelligence, skills of self awareness and self management, that, that's a huge part.

Cherie Canning [00:19:53]:
The majority of the piece, I really think is like our own self management and emotional management and then I think is connecting with, with others. So it's the, the skill to have compassion and empathy and curiosity in the way that we're dealing with people. That not thing. Relationships aren't binary, you know that it's. You're either right or you're wrong. And I think we need to. The nuances of human interaction are really important. How do we give people feedback in a way that is not fluffy, that it, it gives them what they need, but also they feel supported, you know, you know that, that balance of just empathy and compassion in the way that we communicate clearly and succinctly.

Cherie Canning [00:20:35]:
So yeah, connecting in, connecting with others and then I'd say connect with wonder in a way, you know, how do you connect with awe and wonder and a deep sense of gratitude in everyday life? Because I feel that that's a huge part of perspective, you know, like life right now, as we're recording this, this conversation, you know, the world is in a bit of a spin. There's uncertainty with fuel and safety and it's tricky. And also, if we allow ourselves to get so caught up in that, in our teams, in our businesses, in the way that we're turning up every day, that impacts us too. Because, you know, a big part of the human, the human leadership is that our energy is contagious. And so. And the question I'll ask everyone is, is your energy worth catching? And so what are you doing to ensure that the energy you're bringing, whether it's to your family, to your customers, to the team that you're with, to your coaching sessions, wherever it is you're turning up to order your coffee, what kind of energy are you bringing? And to me, that's the human, the human leadership that doesn't just happen like that is by design, not default.

Tina Tower [00:21:46]:
Yeah, I 100% agree. And how much of that though, do you think is born and how much can be learnt? Like when people, when you come in and you're like, this is how we can be better leaders, this is how we can be more effective. Can anybody learn that or is there a baseline already that you need to have?

Cherie Canning [00:22:05]:
Yeah, that's a great question. I think there's, I'm a firm believer that if you actually care about leadership like other people, then that is the baseline for me. When you talk about good leaders, like, can leaders be trained or built, yes or no? I, I, I do think that there's got to be a key question answered honestly. Do you care about other humans? Because if you don't, I think you could get all the skill books and manuals in the world of how to lead. But if you don't, at the core of it actually give a damn about other people, I don't know how efficient, like effective you're going to be. I don't know. What do you think about that?

Tina Tower [00:22:42]:
Oh, I mean I have this debate all the time. Like we were, I was actually talking to my sons about this the other day in the, the nurture verse nature because they're so, like they're 17 months apart, so wildly different with their preferences of different things. And you know, even this morning the masterclass I taught inside her empire builder was all it was called productive as which was all about like productivity and how we get the, the best out of ourselves. And going. It's so interesting in going. Some people, it comes so naturally too in terms of I keep promises to myself, I say what I'm going to do, I can keep boundaries without feeling like an asshole. Whereas other people are like super people pleaser, not managing their time, not managing their days, always exhausted because they're giving their energy all away. And there's a lot of that that I think is how we are innately.

Tina Tower [00:23:32]:
We have these traits that we're bringing. But I truly believe that if we want to behavior change, for some people it's way harder. And for some people, different things come more naturally than others. But I do think if you're willing and you're able, you can learn certain skills. But then there's some people that are like, I know I'm not a people manager. It's one of my worst skills. I put so much time and effort and training into it, but I just don't have the level of patience to like meet people where they're at.

Cherie Canning [00:24:02]:
Yes, yes.

Tina Tower [00:24:03]:
And I try and I can fake my way through it, but really on the inside I'm like, man, go faster. Like I just can't slow down for it. And so I do, I think it's a real combination.

Cherie Canning [00:24:15]:
Yeah, I do too. I think it's a will. It's, there's a lot of the will in there because as you're describing even that boundaries and people place pleasing. Like I am absolutely a recovering people pleaser. Like it is a real strength of mine. So it's something I'm working so hard to change. And that, that is with coaches, that is with deep Work where you're like what is it in that has been conditioned in me? Like, and if people haven't gone on that journey yet, it might just sound so woo woo and so insane. But at the same time those who have, they're like yeah, get it.

Cherie Canning [00:24:48]:
Like what, what is that generational story around who I need to be and the conditioning and the belief set that we've. We're so unconscious of. But then it's doing the work to be conscious of it to go okay, it's okay if I say no or I choose to say no or I choose to say yes. So yeah, I agree. That's, that's hard. That can be hard work. It's natural.

Tina Tower [00:25:11]:
I do feel we do as business leaders is on our self and our own belief system.

Cherie Canning [00:25:18]:
It is because we just constantly got to be asking ourselves is this true? Really? Like is this really true? And like not trusting, not always actually trusting the thoughts that we have isn't that, you know, they're not always truthful. And I see it through Talking to my 9 year old around her own thinking. And you, when you can explain something back to children, I think then you're like okay, we're really seeing, simplifying it. And it's a beautiful way to hear it back. Not in a condescending way, just in a very kind reminder of we have these thoughts. We can choose to interrogate them and we can replace them with something else if they're not serving us, you know, and it's not about dismissing them or shutting them down going why am I thinking like that? The kind. There's that beautiful. Do you know the wolf? The, the Native American tale around the two wolves in our mind? Have you heard of that story? It's a beautiful little video.

Cherie Canning [00:26:10]:
I'll, I'll send the link actually because it's really beautiful.

Tina Tower [00:26:13]:
I'll link it in the show notes.

Cherie Canning [00:26:14]:
Yeah, beautiful. And it's, it's this parable around. We have two wolves. There's two wolves. And one is, you know, the self critic basically. And one is the kind way of compassionate way of seeing ourselves. And the two voices are in our heads all the time. And the little chocolate child asks the elder, you know what, what which voice wins? Like what is the loudest voice in our minds out of these two? And, and the elder says the one you feed.

Cherie Canning [00:26:42]:
And so if you keep giving the attention to that self critic all of the time in a. Be quiet, I don't want to hear from you. Like I need to get to sleep. Why are you Thinking this way and we're self berating, it just grows bigger and bigger. But when we see it with self compassion, where we're like, okay, and whether you name it, whether you, you know, can have these different characters, it sounds a bit funny. But I think when we're talking about the people pleaser, I've got Pammy, the people head of people in my brain. And when Pammy the head of people gets a bit carried away, you can say, okay, thanks for, thanks for thinking of me. I've got this from here.

Cherie Canning [00:27:16]:
So you can actually rationalize this inner voice. I just, I read a book yesterday, being here on holidays, Nat Cook, the Australian volleyballer that won gold at Sydney 2000. And she wrote a book back in 2000 about that winning. And she kept referring to the voice, the voice and the voice of doubt in our minds. And you know, that's someone who's represented our country at five Olympics, like, you know, absolute athlete phenomenon. And every single one of us, whether we're starting a new business, whether we're, you know, five time Olympian, we've all got this voice and it's around learning to hear it, not ignoring it and then just reframing where we can.

Tina Tower [00:27:59]:
Richard Schwartz wrote a book called no Bad Parts, which is all about the different parts of us and the seven of them. And it's like listening to our protector parts and our healer parts and all of the things that are working in conjunction. And it's a chewy book, It's a hard book to read, but it exists, explains that beautifully and like owning our parts and being respectful and compassionate of them, which is exactly what you're talking about, which is so good. And, you know, people that are like us, that want to be high performers and want to be really good at what we do, high performance can often come at a cost. How do you define sustainable success? How have you seen people have that sustainable high performance and how do you yourself do it?

Cherie Canning [00:28:46]:
Yeah, well, I think that it begins with defining what does the success look like to you and ensuring that. I love this expression about, you know, are we human doings or human beings that what are we achieving on the doing list, but who are we being while we're achieving that? And I think when the two go hand in hand and we can achieve and absolutely have that ambition and that drive and incredible sense of the goals we want to achieve. Critical for our drive. Right. But at the same time, the version of ourselves that we're being and holistically in the relationships that we hold in our health in our actual energy, in our bodies, in our minds, financially, spiritually, occupationally, all of those worlds wellness wheel elements, if you like. I think when the ambition and the drive and the sense of being are in alignment, then to me that's that level of success. But it is also, and I, I know you speak about this a lot too, is it's not saying no to hard work, like it's absolutely finding the, the pace. I think that works for you.

Cherie Canning [00:29:57]:
And everyone's a little different here. Like the bracelet I've got got on, actually my little friendship bracelet. But it says create the space. And for me it's that reminder that it is around like one in my calendar scheduling breaks. So like bigger holidays, smaller breaks, like scheduling six weekly breaks and then 12 weekly breaks as well, but then in the calendar as well. What? Yeah. So those six weeks are maybe a long weekend or a week or usually long weekends for six weeks. And then 12 weeks is just something that's a lot more restorative or adventurous in the space as well.

Cherie Canning [00:30:33]:
Like carving out days in your calendar or in your time that are really protected and then understanding. I think we talk a lot about, you know, the emotional bank account. What are the things that give that you put in your deposits and what are your withdrawals. So what are the things in life that are taking energy from you and what can you possibly do? You delegate. What can you delete? But also some of it is just life. And you know, an example would be parenting or actually if you're leading a team, like leading a team, if you enjoy leading people will be a deposit, but it will also absolutely be withdrawal because you're giving energy. I think if you're in an intimate relationship, it hopefully goes on both sides, but it's a withdrawal in a way. You've got to contribute, you've got to compromise and be thinking about other people.

Cherie Canning [00:31:19]:
But then what's on that list? And I think getting people to then go, what's on my intentional deposits? And that's where that energy, I think, or where that sustainability comes in. Maybe you don't need the six weekly breaks, but you need a certain amount of sleep or you need, you're happy to drink alcohol, but you need to work out or you don't drink alcohol anymore because it's just not serving you. And you know, it's just being real. And as we age as well, I think going, okay, well, what was appropriate for me last decade or last season is no longer serving.

Tina Tower [00:31:50]:
I haven't had coffee in three years. I miss it. Every day.

Cherie Canning [00:31:55]:
That's amazing.

Tina Tower [00:31:56]:
Yeah, but it's because of that energy. It's because I needed it and it would get to those different parts in my day and it was like running my day. And I said the only way to get over this is zero, nothing decaf. I do like occasionally, but I try not to because to me it's like the gateway. I'm like, what a taste for it. I'll go back into it. So no, not a lot because I was so reliant upon it. And yeah, it really does impact energy and I've got other friends that doesn't at all.

Cherie Canning [00:32:27]:
So, yeah, it's knowing your thing. Right. I'm the same with alcohol. I'm really not drinking alcohol these days and I just really noticed it for myself. It's huge. And other people, you know, they all do their own thing, but it's really made a difference.

Tina Tower [00:32:42]:
Yeah, I love that. Now you have built a beautiful personal brand. It's how I first came to find you and was like, it was funny when we, when we met in person at Christine Cochran's conference last year, unstoppable woman, who that is on again this year. A great conference, if anyone's looking at one to go to. But we sat next to each other and you were like, Tina. And I'm like, cherie. And we had that mutual thing all because you built that personal brand. Now what do you think? Because nearly everybody listening to this is in.

Tina Tower [00:33:09]:
Is in the business of also building a personal brand. What's been the most effective way that you've built that trust and credibility in your space?

Cherie Canning [00:33:17]:
Yes. Thank you. I would say it would be two things in regards to know who you are and like understanding your own values and how you choose to show up. So we can't always be in control of how people perceive that. But in my mind, go, okay, when, when somebody thinks of me, what would I like them to think of potentially? Or when they connect the dots with, you know, who I am as a human being? What are some of those words? And you know, Tina, I had this experience with this personal branding exercise. We do this in our workshops. But it happened for me and not to me. It happened for me and I'll never forget it.

Cherie Canning [00:33:58]:
It was about 2011 and I was on this program where the idea was you, you put post it notes on people's backs and it was the words that best describe them as a leader and how you see them. And it was in this future senior leader program. It was quite an honor to be on this program. And I still have all of those posters, notes. And the reason is not a single one of them came back with words that I actually wanted people to use. None of them. It was so confronting. Nothing was unkind, nothing was bad.

Cherie Canning [00:34:32]:
It was all nice, but it was nice. And it was that moment that I went, holy crap. Like, the way I am actually showing up is not in alignment to how I. The version of me that I believe I am. People aren't seeing it. Why aren't they seeing it? And so then that was a whole discovery of like the limiting beliefs and how do I need to physically show up? Like, what do I wear? How do I speak? And not in a disingenuous way, in an aligned way, in a consistent way. And that was huge for me. So from that moment I'm like, well, these are the ways I would like people, people to experience me.

Cherie Canning [00:35:12]:
And do you get it right every time? Are you that every, you know, 100 time? Of course not. But when we're talking, because you're human, you have good days and not so great days. But when you come back to it, I think that's on the core values. You know, who am I define those core values, but also the alignment of the values. Am I actually behaving in this way every single day and giving people the best chance to see that version version of you? And that to me is huge. And then it is the consistency. So it is whether it's regular posting, regular articles, regular events, like how whatever that method or that mode looks like, but it is consistency, isn't it? Not just when I need to sell something. And I think you've always said that, like when I've heard you say, you know, if you've got a launch, you don't just pop in everyone's inbox like

Tina Tower [00:36:00]:
and then ghost the them in the other part. Yeah,

Cherie Canning [00:36:05]:
yeah, no, it's just like turn up consistently. And there's a little quote on my computer at, at work that is says it's better to be of value than it is to be of success. And, and I believe like when you are of value will be of success. But it's the mindset of how is this adding value? Is this just going to make someone smile? Is this, is this going to inspire someone? Is it going to give someone some information that might better their day, their. Their role? But how am I adding value?

Tina Tower [00:36:35]:
Yeah, I like that. And it is like you said, it's not the, like it's not being disingenuous. Sometimes people will challenge me on that. With personal brand, when I'm like, you know, you're showing the different. But to me it's illuminating the different parts that you are happy to. Yeah, you're right. To illuminate. Um, so clever.

Tina Tower [00:36:55]:
Um, but that is what it is, I think is because, I mean, I'm quite a private person. There's a lot of my life, a lot of my life that I don't show at all. And I like it like that. But it doesn't mean keeping parts of yourself, you know, it doesn't mean not showing yourself. It's just choosing what parts you're showing. And I think that that's a really important part, especially for women with sustainable personal brands, is not to feel, feel like your whole life is commoditized as well.

Cherie Canning [00:37:22]:
Yeah, that's true. Like, you've got to have the right balance for you and the pressure of like, are you actually, I think as well when it comes to more social presence in particular, are you more present with the people that you are posting for? Are you more present for the people you're with? And I think when that tips over, we're doing it for the wrong reason. Reasons.

Tina Tower [00:37:45]:
Yeah, right. Oh my gosh, I just thought of so many examples of that. I'm like, yes, that's right. Yes, let's be conscious of that.

Cherie Canning [00:37:52]:
Isn't it? Isn't it? And yeah, like even my daughter will say, because I'm very aware of the messaging that I'm giving a young child about social media and she's. And I've got, I put a limit on my phone every day for social media. And she's like, so mum, are you still going on Instagram? I think said, yeah, I am. I give myself 15 minutes a day. So I jump on. I'll post what I want to post, I'll engage with any messages or comments and you know, so respond and then I will scroll through and see what I like and comment on what I'm happy to see for other people. But I don't get into my own doom scrolling or just lose, lose just so much time that's based on my own experiences with it because then I realize I'm disappearing into that vortex. But I also do value it.

Cherie Canning [00:38:39]:
I actually see it as a form of connection and not just.

Tina Tower [00:38:42]:
I've met many real life friends on social media.

Cherie Canning [00:38:46]:
Yes, absolutely. Like the reason I know you is because of social media. You know, it's absolutely through the connection.

Tina Tower [00:38:54]:
I, I think it works really, really well.

Cherie Canning [00:38:56]:
Yes, yes. And it's genuine, you know, it's not. But yeah, we. This is where the inner work goes. Well, what is my real motivation here? What are my real drivers and why am I showing up in a certain way? Is that really serving me? So always challenging our own beliefs?

Tina Tower [00:39:11]:
I love that. My final question for you, Sherene, is we kind of touched on a little bit earlier and it's important to know what your own version of success is for that sustainable success. And it's the last question that I ask everybody is what in your current season of business leadership are you in? What does success look like for you? You've already mentioned your six week breaks, your 12 week breaks, which I just let sings to my heart as a version of success. But what is that whole package for you of this is what success looks like

Cherie Canning [00:39:43]:
in this season? We've given ourselves a revenue target that is bigger than what we've ever achieved before. And for that you're not.

Tina Tower [00:39:53]:
I've just got to stop you there. You know how many people I've asked this question to and how few women mention revenue And I love really and,

Cherie Canning [00:40:00]:
and, and profit too. It will be those two linked. Yeah, thanks. And, and it's that, that's the doing and then the being is in the way that at the end of the year the energy is still sustainable. So it is like maintaining those breaks.

Tina Tower [00:40:18]:
Not at any cost.

Cherie Canning [00:40:19]:
Not at any cost. And I've got those parameters and know what that looks like. So it's, and it's funny, you know, Tina, it's the first year we've really gone all out and we're doing it on a calendar year at the moment from the team's perspective. And man, like we're, we, we are, we are so close with forward. What we've already like got in our calendar for the rest of the year. We're almost exceeding what we did last year already. And, and I think it's that drive and it's the why behind it and it's the excitement behind it. And personally I'd love to be on more stages speaking more.

Cherie Canning [00:40:57]:
So a lot of the time I'm behind closed doors running workshops, which I love. But the success for me personally will be on the opportunity to have more impact to bigger groups.

Tina Tower [00:41:05]:
Yeah, love that. And you're going to be on your own stage at the end of this year, which we will link below for your conference. Can you talk a little bit about that? Your course, where can people find you and engage with your work?

Cherie Canning [00:41:17]:
Beautiful. Thank you. Yes. Our Women in Leadership conference called Ignite. It will be in Its fifth year this year.

Tina Tower [00:41:24]:
And, I mean, it's exceptional when I. Gosh, you pull out. All I could think when I watched it was, this has cost her a fortune. Like, every little tiny touch. As someone who runs events, I'm like, oh, I see what you did with the stage design there. I see what you did with the seating arrangements. I see it like, I'm like, go, share it. Like, it is a good, quality event.

Cherie Canning [00:41:44]:
Thank you. It really is. Well, do you know, my first event download I ever got was from your podcast. That way, you're like, here's some event, like, years ago when we first started. Like, where do I even start here? But you know what? The experience for me and thank you. It's really something I'm extremely proud of. And the experience of Ignite is about the people in the room, the quality of the speakers and who we get. We make sure is, like a beautiful mixture.

Cherie Canning [00:42:12]:
But there's a lot of. There's a lot of engagement and intentional, I guess you'd say, almost like workshop skills and tricks that we bring into the day so people aren't just being spoken at. It really is a very engaged, collaborative culture. So that's happening in November, the 13th of November, our first fifth year. And yeah, really can't wait. The. The lineup will start getting released shortly, and this is an event. We will sell tables before we've even announced a single speaker.

Cherie Canning [00:42:42]:
Like, it's ridiculous how the engagement of the community, which is amazing.

Tina Tower [00:42:47]:
Value of a buildable reputation.

Cherie Canning [00:42:50]:
Oh, thank you. Well, yeah, it just feels really. It just feels so fulfilling because people love it and we love them coming, and yet we're excited for number five. So. Yeah, that's the 13th of November, my birthday.

Tina Tower [00:43:03]:
Oh, my. You put an event on your birthday? Crazy lady.

Cherie Canning [00:43:07]:
Celebratory. Yeah. Just. Why not? Goodness, That's a lot of work after.

Tina Tower [00:43:14]:
Yeah, I love that. Well, we'll link to everything below. But, Sheree, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for all your wisdom.

Cherie Canning [00:43:21]:
Thank you. Thank you for having me.