Tina Tower [00:00:00]:
Hi friends, welcome to Her Empire Builder Show. I am your host Tina Tower, and today I have Hayley Osborne joining me as a guest on the show. Hayley has been a member of Her Empire Builder for nearly 4 years. Oh, she is such a firecracker of a human, like so much energy, so much ambition, so much unapologetic zest For Life. Um, she's a mom of 3 small children, and in this episode we're talking about how children can actually intensify your ambition and also make you productive as all get-up, and the advantages of that, and, and what sort of support that she says yes to in order to be able to have this and that. Um, we're also talking about business reinvention. That is a big theme of today's episode. And what I love so much about that is that Haley is living life in chapters, in going, you know, there was pre-children, there was what the business was like with one child, two, three, and then what she's leading towards as her children are starting to get older as well.ntum and boost your revenue.

Main Episode

Tina Tower [00:01:12]:
And going with not compromising on the business that she wants to operate and also the mom that she wants to be, the wife that she wants to be, and the woman that she wants to be. How she can do all of that and adapt and change as she's going throughout each of the seasons and each of the chapters so that she can have it all for what's right, right now. So I think that that's going to be really, really helpful and interesting for anyone who is doing both. So a little bit about Hayley. Besides being a sensational member of her Empire Builder, she's a serial entrepreneur, she's a business strategist, and a health brand expert. Hayley is driven by a passion to empower Australian health businesses by demystifying and simplifying marketing. Recognizing health businesses as the backbone of a thriving community, society, and ultimately our economy, she's dedicated to ensuring that health businesses can harness the power of effective marketing strategies to propel their businesses forward. She's had a track record of working with hundreds of business owners since her business inception and has facilitated growth through strategic positioning, dynamic lead generation, and converting potential customers into profitable ventures.

Tina Tower [00:02:30]:
She is one of the most creative marketers that I have ever come across and does things just a little bit differently, which I think is so interesting and a very big superpower to her success. She offers a myriad of avenues to access her insights, from her own podcast, The Hayley Osborne Show, to her signature 90-day Health Brand Accelerator and her mastermind, the Health Brand Growth Lab. You can find all of the links to Hayley in the show notes below, as well as all of the, uh, links to join Her Empire Builder. So we are in Her Empire Builder launch week. So if you are liking what Hayley is saying and you want to be part of the community as well with people like Hayley, um, join us at herempirebuilder.com. We only open twice a year for 10 days, so it's not a very long window, and we are in launch week. So I hope you really love Hayley's story. I hope it inspires you a lot.

Tina Tower [00:03:34]:
I know that Hayley inspires me just with her zest and her energy, and, and like I've said it already, but that unapologeticness of just going, this is what I want and I'm gonna take it. And I think we could all do with a little bit more of that energy in our lives. So enjoy my conversation with the fabulous Hayley Osborne. Gorgeous Hayley Osborne, welcome to Her Empire Builder Show.

Hayley Osborne [00:03:58]:
Hi Tina, thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be here. I—

Tina Tower [00:04:03]:
you are one of my favorite people because we've worked together for many years now. Um, and I remember the first time we worked together was a VIP day and you came and you're like, I've got to get all this done because I'm making babies and I'm doing everything. And you have— you're such a firecracker in the way that you do things. Um, has having babies changed that for you, or has it illuminated that for you? Has it slowed you down at all? What change has that made?

Hayley Osborne [00:04:30]:
It's such a funny— oh, that's a funny question because I've always been like that. I've always been a go-getter from a young age. I had a fashion label, I had a candle business, and I'm not talking just a small little thing. The fashion label I manufactured in China, I was nominated for Emerging Designer of the Year. I did it all, and that was before social media. Then I had my candle business. I did trade shows. I did the lot.

Hayley Osborne [00:04:54]:
And I had national stockists. I'm all in all the time. And then I wondered how having babies was going to change that. And I thought, great, I'm not going to be able to do what I do. But if anything, it made me even more of a go-getter and firecracker because I think they're the same. I think that babies, you have to be super reactive, nimble, flexible, all the things. It doesn't go to plan. And I think that is exactly like business.

Hayley Osborne [00:05:24]:
And it's just amplified everything and made it better. I feel, I don't have as much time as what other people do now. And when we had that VIP day, it would, well, I can calculate that by my middle child's age now, it would have been 4 years ago. I was 6 months pregnant. And I had a very big deadline to burn my business down and redo it again. And so I made it happen and I've reinvented myself so often since then. And I've had another child since then. So now I have 3 small humans under 5 and I do what I do.

Hayley Osborne [00:06:00]:
I get this question a lot, like, how do you do it? How do you maintain the motivation? And I think I've always been a very positive and happy person. And I don't think about things. When I make my mind up, I do it. I don't— I just get the ticket, do the thing, make the landing page, register the URL. I move at the speed of light, and I think that's what lots of people are attracted to because, you know, it's, it's not the easiest thing to do, but when you know what you're doing, it's a lot easier.

Tina Tower [00:06:28]:
Cut from the same cloth, you and I. Yeah, I know. Although I do sometimes think like, gosh, I would— I yearn for the productivity that I had when I had small humans. Because you do take, like before we hit record, you were like, you know, you get small opportunities that you get to spend on your development and your, your different time that you get. You've got to maximize that as much as you can, that you do hold it in such a higher esteem. Yeah, don't fluff about at all. Whereas now my kids are 18 and 16, which is wild, but I can fluff about as much as I like.

Hayley Osborne [00:07:05]:
Yeah, I can't. And my husband often says to me, like, how do you go from that to this? And then you've pumped out like what you've done in that 1 hour. How do you, how does your focus get so laser that you can readjust that within a minute? And I was like, well, because I don't wanna work late nights and I know exactly what I need to do. And I make lists and I've got lots of different systems and processes set up so that I know exactly what I'm doing. And I just, make the decision and run with it. And I think this was before AI, and now, oh my goodness, what I can achieve with AI is insane. And I'm proud, I'm proud to be able to say I can do all of this.

Tina Tower [00:07:49]:
Yeah, I do think it's good for people like us to have an outlet as well. Like, there was, um, my son sent me a reel a couple of days ago and he goes, hey Mom, I think this would be you if you didn't work. And it was one of these reels of this woman organizing her pantry to within, like everything was the clear plastic tubs with all the labels and all the things and all the spreadsheets of which 100%, if I was a stay-at-home mom, I would be insane and doing all of the organizational things. So I'm glad that I get to channel it somewhere that, you know, makes some money and makes some impact in the world as well.

Hayley Osborne [00:08:26]:
I would be a pain in the ass if I didn't have my business. Yeah. To everyone in the house. Yes, 100%, because I need to. And I think one child, two children, three children, I think it's the same.

Tina Tower [00:08:39]:
Yeah, it's nice to hear that.

Hayley Osborne [00:08:40]:
Everyone gets in line. I don't know how it happened.

Tina Tower [00:08:44]:
We do what we have to. So you mentioned before you've reinvented yourself a little bit, but I think, well, as long as I've known you, it's always been around. You are a marketer. But what different iterations has that taken as you've had to adapt the business to either children or your way of life or even the way the market has gone or what your interests are in.

Hayley Osborne [00:09:07]:
Yeah, so I started off, I have a marketing degree, but not like, that was a long time ago before social media even started. And my first big break was looking after the Jack Daniel's brand. I started off all of the Instagram pages for Jack Daniel's Southern Comfort, Chambord, like, back in the day, and that was amazing to work on. And I always thought the brand side of things was just the way to go. And then when I started my own business, because I just got clients on the side and it was sort of just an organic way to start, but I thought, right, I am a marketer and brand manager to everyone because I'm good at it. I'm not just, um, good at social media. I'm not just good at sending email marketing. I'm not just good at copywriting.

Hayley Osborne [00:09:57]:
Like, I am overall holistic, whole, real deal. And then over time, I was like, well, hang on a minute, I don't actually enjoy working with, say, product-based businesses, for example. I am more service-based. And it's funny how the ebbs and flows of people coming in and out of your world really start to prove that to you on what you like and what you don't like. So that was the first piece of going, right, I am more of a service-based business provider. What would you call it? Uh, yeah. And then I was, okay, well, how do I then niche even more? And it was more around, I sound vague. I'm not just a marketer.

Hayley Osborne [00:10:41]:
I still— my messaging isn't right. I still sound like it's not working. And then I came up with looking after local business. And local business marketing, and that's where you helped me. And I had a membership around that, and there was a couple of, um, you know, cool names. So it was, if you had known me then, and it was Superhero Marketing. That no longer exists, and that was for local business marketing. And then I realized, okay, well, that, that kind of didn't do what I wanted it to do, and I still had more to give from a community perspective, um, from a social and sustainability perspective, and it just wasn't doing what I needed it to do.

Hayley Osborne [00:11:25]:
And I had a long hard look at my client list and my repertoire and who was in there. And I was like, oh my God, the penny just dropped. I look after so many health wellness and allied health professionals, some of the biggest in the country. And I was like, why aren't I talking to them? What, how? And I think what I found and what I found through working with Sarah so many business owners is that we are often so close to our businesses that we can't see them anymore. And that I was in my own way. And I remember you saying that to me and I was like, nah, I'm not doing that.

Tina Tower [00:12:03]:
Hello, I've had business coaches my entire 21 years in business. I've had business coaches, been part of programs, and people will say something to me sometimes and I'll go, I really should have known that myself. Like, I should have seen that myself. But we do have blind spots, yeah.

Hayley Osborne [00:12:19]:
So that's kind of, I hope that is a long way of answering that question, but it has been so many iterations and, you know, including website, 'cause that's your front face. I have rebuilt that so many times. It does help when your husband is a web developer, but I also know what I'm doing. So for everyone that thinks, oh, that's, she's so lucky, well, actually no, I've taught myself through means of necessity and because I'm a fast mover, I want it done. That I have done a lot myself as well. And yeah, I just, it, it's crazy. It's been reinvented lots of times and I think you need to keep yourself up to date. And if you don't know how, then get help to know how, because I think that closes the gap a lot faster to get you where you want to go.

Hayley Osborne [00:13:05]:
That's what I found.

Tina Tower [00:13:07]:
Yeah. And what would your advice be to people? Because there's a lot of people that I talk to, especially in the last year, the market has changed a lot and the way that people were operating prior to that is different now. And so, a lot of people have to tweak, or a lot of people have to pivot, or change their messaging, change their offers, and do that. And too often, I find people are just tied, like stuck in, and just— it's a really hard line to know when to quit, and when quitting is the right thing to do, and when you're quitting too soon because you're about to break through and hit it. How have you, as you've ebbed and flowed, kind of found that line to know that, you know what, the way this is going is no longer serving me and I actually feel okay about changing direction.

Hayley Osborne [00:13:49]:
Yeah, I think, you know, in your gut, you've gotta follow your gut. And I think I move fast and I know when something isn't right. And also it's just, I don't know, it's intuitive. As a person, as a business owner, you know deep down, but you're either too scared to admit it or too afraid to change. And I think that's what makes, like differentiates, I'm not gonna say the great from the awesome, but like you've just gotta have the balls. And nothing's forever. Nothing's forever. Like we started business for freedom, for flexibility to do what we want.

Hayley Osborne [00:14:32]:
And then somehow as things become more successful and there's more on the line, the person that we were when we started, which was so like risky and would take massive chances, that stops because there's more to lose. And that's a scary place to be, but it's so thrilling because then you remember why you started. So one thing that I've always had is a retainer base of clients. So my business model is made up of lots of different parts and pieces, and I'm really proud of that. And it hasn't it's not an overnight thing. It's taken a long time to build. So much like yourself, I've got retainer clients, I've got one-on-one coaching clients, I do marketing strategy and social media strategy, which is sort of in and out, and then I've got my online courses, the scalable pieces, and soon to have, um, the downloadables, the tiny offers that people can get as well. And so I, I think it's risky when you have one thing But if you can diversify, like anything, if you can diversify, like buying property and all the other things to make money, like it's not just one stream.

Hayley Osborne [00:15:40]:
And that's, I think, what has held me in good stead to make, to take more risks.

Tina Tower [00:15:45]:
Yeah.

Hayley Osborne [00:15:46]:
Yeah.

Tina Tower [00:15:47]:
What is your relationship with failure?

Hayley Osborne [00:15:50]:
It really sucked at first. Yeah. Like, it was terrible. I don't like not winning. And we have this thing in our house and it's controversial to the sign of the times, but you either come first or that's it. 'Cause we don't— Secondly. Second best.

Tina Tower [00:16:10]:
You're poor children.

Hayley Osborne [00:16:12]:
Oh, my husband, my poor kids, yes. No one gets a participation medal like at all, right? So you've gotta win and the thrill of winning or coming first. And I'm not saying like, I'm a competitive person. Yes, I am. Yes. Whenever, when I remember—

Tina Tower [00:16:29]:
I've never been able to tell.

Hayley Osborne [00:16:32]:
Working in corporate, I remember very vividly we had this amazing race type of activity. This is a long time ago. Like I've been running my own business for 8+ years. And the team that I was with, I said, we are going to win this, like make or break. I don't even care what the prize is. It's not about that. It's about coming first. And they were like, Hayley, come on.

Hayley Osborne [00:16:54]:
Sure enough, we came first. I just can't. I'm— maybe that's because I've played sports my whole life. I think that's what it is. And so failure, like, I'm okay with it, but it actually would make me drive a little bit harder.

Tina Tower [00:17:08]:
Yeah, I do think the way that you win is by failing more. There's so many people that I see just not getting off the starting blocks because they're so afraid of failing and it not working out. But it's like if you just jump on in and you experiment on the way and you have all your little micro failures and you can course correct and course correct, like that gets you to the W way quicker.

Hayley Osborne [00:17:29]:
Yeah, I think too the failure piece when you are publicly doing it, it's a bit more scary. So, oh, I— you and I are publicly just, yeah, doing it, and I think you've got to be very comfortable in your own skin and with yourself to not care what other people think.

Tina Tower [00:17:49]:
Yeah, yeah. Well, at the time that this, uh, episode goes live, we are launching Her Empire Builder, and it is always something that at the beginning I would, like you said, like I could experiment, I could do all sorts of scrappy and fun things because it was like no one was watching, no one cared, and I was having the time of my life. Whereas now everything is judged and everything is watched and everything is so public that it has to this point made me a lot more like cognizant of tripping up in front of people when it's the thing that I teach. But with this launch, I decided to make it my most fun launch that I've ever done. And so I'm doing a lot of things that I've never done before because I wanna play again. And some of it will work and some of it won't work. And I've decided I don't care.

Hayley Osborne [00:18:35]:
Yeah. And I think that is one of your biggest, traits and positive things that you can do is when things maybe don't go to plan, I like and I love the fact that you call a spade a spade. And I think that draws people to you more because everybody has this but not so publicly.

Tina Tower [00:18:57]:
Yes.

Hayley Osborne [00:18:57]:
So if she's doing it, then I can do it, right? Yeah, yeah. And that's what I try and show as well, is like, it's not all peaches and cream.

Tina Tower [00:19:04]:
Yeah, yeah. But for you as a marketer, What has been the most difficult part about marketing yourself?

Hayley Osborne [00:19:12]:
I think when I transitioned over to a personal brand, it was very scary. And I do know, and you said this to me, is that they grow much faster, faster than named brands. And I sat behind a named brand, didn't realize I didn't own the.com. Um, and then I, yeah, I transitioning to step into myself, I think was very hard because then I was like going through the whole thing. Well, What if I wanna sell the business? What does that look like? I am the face of the business. And then you start to separate it into parts and pieces and that's where the offers come in play and like what they stand for and all of the things. But I think stepping into yourself, myself was definitely the hardest part. But also as a marketer and someone that looks after brands and propels them up, it's like, well, you, the scariest part is you have to showcase that you are doing this for yourself.

Hayley Osborne [00:20:07]:
And you have to walk the walk. Otherwise, people aren't going to want to be in your world because you are not up to date with all the things. Now, this could have been really hard for me. In the last 5 years, I've had 3 babies, and I could have just shut shop and gone. It— the growth of marketing, digital marketing in this sector is huge, and I could have chosen not to lean in, but I just can't not. Like, I love Tech, I love everything that goes with it. I am trying to build something in the tech space at the moment. It is very far from, I know you're like, why? Why?

Tina Tower [00:20:43]:
I'm like, that sounds exciting.

Hayley Osborne [00:20:45]:
It's cool, but it's very early and I can't not, 'cause I've seen that there's a gap and I really wanna lean into something that is techie that will help business owners. So yeah, I think it's the biggest, nerve-wracking thing as a marketer and my, for myself, is keeping up to date with everything. Yeah. Um, and understanding too, like, it's okay if a video or a photo or a carousel or whatever has only 500 plays or whatever it looks like. And I always often have to remind myself, okay, so that is, that is bigger than what a cinema can hold. Yeah, it's like a small local sports stadium. Yeah, like that many people have watched what I'm doing. If 500 people came in and wanted to work one-on-one with me, I couldn't support that.

Hayley Osborne [00:21:34]:
And that's the message I keep telling myself, and that's what I would love anyone that's listening to this to understand. Like, don't— you can't sweat the small stuff because they're not small. Even 50 likes, that's 50 people liking what you've put out there. And also, you know, as a marketer with social media, it is not the only thing. And so there's lots—

Tina Tower [00:22:00]:
say that again. Social media is not the only thing.

Hayley Osborne [00:22:03]:
It's not the only thing. And I think that is one of my little golden nugget reminders all the time. It's not the only thing. And like I was saying to you before we jumped on, like, just hit record, Tina, because we could just keep talking forever. Is I've got a few things up my sleeve. I'm doing a few things over the next few weeks, and I'm, I'm trying to put myself out there and show people that social media is not the only thing. So watch this space, uh, but it's exciting, and there's so many ways for you to grow your business that it's not just one way.

Tina Tower [00:22:39]:
Yeah. Is there any stories that you've had to untangle to allow yourself to be more visible, especially as you know, your time is so limited, and some days I'm sure you're like deep in babies, deep.

Hayley Osborne [00:22:55]:
Now it's more like screaming at them to just put food in their mouth.

Tina Tower [00:23:01]:
Like, yeah, so it's not the easiest way to do daily Instagram stories or anything. So how have you kept up your visibility, and, and how would you encourage other people to do visibility when they don't have like life of a content creator?

Hayley Osborne [00:23:13]:
Yes, that's been a difficult one to navigate, to be honest. The one— the couple of things I've done is kept up, obviously, my brand photo shoots. Yeah. Um, and I work with a brilliant photographer in a brilliant space, and I've used her lots of times, uh, and she's amazing. And she gets me, so much so that when I first had my— when I had my third baby, he just come along, breastfeed in between, like, takes. And, you know, you need your people around you.

Tina Tower [00:23:39]:
That's how it should be.

Hayley Osborne [00:23:40]:
Oh, it's just great. It's, it is stressful. It is. But you, you channel where the stress goes. So whoever screams the loudest gets the most attention. Business.

Tina Tower [00:23:53]:
I mean, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's true in all cases.

Hayley Osborne [00:23:59]:
But then what I've started doing more recently is with, I've made, I've got some beautiful friends in business. And they're in very similar situations. So we have been filming little content days, scheduling time in advance where we go to fancy places and just help each other. Not, not fancy fancy, but you know, just go around and create some content. And another thing that I'm really good at— my friends hate me for this— but when we're out, and I obviously don't have my kids when I'm with my friends, is I'm like, can you just film me walking through that door? Can you just film me drinking this coffee? Can you? And they're like, Hayley, I'm gonna just do it. And now it's got to the point where, give me a phone, I'll just do this for you. And it's great. And that's how I've morphed it into my life.

Hayley Osborne [00:24:46]:
'Cause no one wants to see me changing nappies. Like, no, I don't wanna see me changing nappies. I love my kids, but I love myself as well, a lot. So it's just that balance, right?

Tina Tower [00:24:58]:
I love that. How do you— I was talking to someone about this earlier, about the community and going, and I love that you ask for what you want and what you need. And that's something that I think, um, you know, not necessarily martyrdom, but I do think that women have been conditioned, especially in the last 10 years, where we're wanting ambition and we're wanting to take our opportunities and we're wanting to have life outside of the home, but we still have the major responsibility for raising children and looking after the home and all of different things that are in it. And we don't have the support that we used to have where it was like a village raising us. How do you access that support? Like what enables you to be able to have like the best of both worlds happening now? And do you find it easy to say yes to support or to ask for what you need? Or do you still get guilty around that?

Hayley Osborne [00:25:50]:
Well, I think early on, I've always loved books. I've always loved listening to other people's stories. I love storytelling, so I've always leaned into podcasts and reading books. And I think that I've listened to a lot of people go, you don't need to be the cleaner, you don't need to do this, you don't need to do that. And it's just that mindset shift. And I think once you've got that, the world is your oyster because you don't have to do it all. So I have a cleaner, I have a lawnmower man, and I didn't always have that. But I swallowed the pill or whatever.

Hayley Osborne [00:26:24]:
And I was like, you know what? I don't have to do all these things. It doesn't make me great. And then, you know, I come from a biggish family and so does my husband. And, you know, I spent so much time as a kid with my grandparents and I loved them so much. Like to the point I was to my Nana, can I call you mom? And she was like, no, I'm your mom. And I think like I treasure them so hard. Like the necklaces I'm wearing now, these are my little good luck. This one in particular has a picture of— this was the first gift that my grandfather gave my grandmother back in 1935, I think it was.

Hayley Osborne [00:27:00]:
Oh, I love that. It's so cheap, but there's a photo inside, a black and white one of him. Um, and I wear it sometimes. It's special to bring me luck. So that's why I'm wearing it today. And it reminds me, like, I just treasure them. And so in saying that, I want that for my kids.

Tina Tower [00:27:18]:
Yeah.

Hayley Osborne [00:27:18]:
So I passed them over gladly to my parents and to my mother-in-law. So to preface this, and you know, my mum lives next door to me. Oh wow. Um, and I love my mum. She's my best friend. And she— it's, it's, it is easier. At the start was— she didn't always live next door. But now she does.

Hayley Osborne [00:27:41]:
And at the start I was like, oh, I don't know, my husband, I don't know how it's going to go with your mom next door. And now it's like, don't call me, I'll call you. My mom's like blinds down. Like, I love it the other way around, but it's the best. We don't get in each other's way, but she loves— I love seeing the relationship with my kids. Um, and same as with like my dad and my stepmom, like they lean in and they love my kids like their own. And then my mother-in-law Like, and I've had comments that, you know, it's really nice to see your children being raised by the village. And it, yeah, it doesn't happen very often.

Hayley Osborne [00:28:17]:
And I've got a brother and a sister who has children, and then I've got 3 brother-in-laws and sister-in-laws who all have kids. And so they love my kids like their own, and it's just, it's nice. And I know lots of people don't have that, but I have it, and I'm I don't palm my kids off, but I do, 'cause I know that it's good for them because I was good because of it. So that's what I do.

Tina Tower [00:28:41]:
[Speaker] That's awesome. I think a lot of people could do with feeling better about that. And then there's also the, you know, a lot of people don't have access to that. I never had access to that. And I think, gosh, that must be so incredibly beautiful. But even if you don't have access to that, there's other ways that you can access that village.

Hayley Osborne [00:29:00]:
Friends too that become that. And in saying that too, like, I know you met your husband when you were so young, right? Which is so lucky and so lovely.

Tina Tower [00:29:08]:
My son's age now.

Hayley Osborne [00:29:10]:
I can't even— I was not even in that. I met my husband when I was 33, and so I thought that I was going to be on the shelf, left behind. There was something wrong with me. I couldn't find somebody, you know, like it just wasn't clicking, and I So there's all that time and I'm so glad that I waited because all my friends, I was always the bridesmaid. All my friends were getting married and having babies and I'm still like twiddling my thumbs going, just gonna keep building businesses. And that's what I did. So it was kind of the other way around. So I just—

Tina Tower [00:29:50]:
I always think like it's such a different, there's friends that I have now, I'm 42. And so a lot of my friends have toddlers. Kids now. And then I also have friends the same age that have kids the same age as mine that are leaving. I'm like, being a millennial is so random. Like, you've got such a stretch of people in different life stages. And I look at my friends that had kids later and I go, in some ways it was so good because they were able to, you know, know who they were first and build a life and build wealth and all of these different things before they actually had kids. Whereas I was a kid when I had kids, I felt like.

Tina Tower [00:30:28]:
But now I'm like, I'm going to live my wild 20s in my 40s.

Hayley Osborne [00:30:33]:
Yeah, you are.

Tina Tower [00:30:35]:
I'm like, I feel like my time is coming. Like I'm getting that little bit of independence and that little bit there. But I also think like how tough it must be to like you've got kids ruining the good furniture.

Hayley Osborne [00:30:46]:
Oh, tell me. Like, I just—

Tina Tower [00:30:48]:
we only had stuff off at the time eBay because Facebook Marketplace wasn't even a thing. But we had like old crappy stuff. We were just so poor. And I think now if I had kids now, oh my God, the outfits I dress them in, the beautiful stuff they would have. Like, oh my goodness.

Hayley Osborne [00:31:04]:
It's very different and also very frustrating. Like, we've got these beautiful blue velvet armchairs that sit on the end of our dining table.

Tina Tower [00:31:12]:
Sounds like drama.

Hayley Osborne [00:31:14]:
And they are like, I have sections in my house where I'm like, don't put toys in that section or I'll kill you. And sometimes I'll see the back of one of them, like they're all coated and they're all protected but there'll be like snot or like dirty finger. And I just, who did this? Don't touch my chairs. And now, you know what? It's funny because they know, don't touch the special ones. You're right though about the furniture is like—

Tina Tower [00:31:43]:
Positives and negatives.

Hayley Osborne [00:31:44]:
You're protecting your furniture.

Tina Tower [00:31:45]:
Yeah, our house was just like one giant playpen. Really was. Okay, back to marketing.

Hayley Osborne [00:31:55]:
Rein it in. Rein it in before I go off on too much of a tangent.

Tina Tower [00:31:58]:
So when you're talking about course creating right now and marketing, what do you think is like one of the marketing activities— I love that you mentioned before, let's think outside of just social media— what is your advice for giving the highest ROI in terms of marketing for online?

Hayley Osborne [00:32:12]:
Oh, I think getting on people's podcasts. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Like, they are not your audience.

Tina Tower [00:32:19]:
And I say this right now, there's hundreds of people learning Hayley Osborne who didn't know who you were before, correct?

Hayley Osborne [00:32:26]:
Yeah. And I think that it's easy, and it's easy also to say, oh yeah, get on people's podcasts. The amount of times I've told people to do this and they don't do it is crazy. But when you realize the benefit and you start getting that momentum, you start doing it more. But it's an easier win than what you can imagine. You've just gotta set up the right things in place. So I've got brand guidelines, I've got a media kit, I've got my marketing one sheet, thanks to you.

Tina Tower [00:32:55]:
Um, and I have all the systems with how to get on the podcast inside her Empire Builder.

Hayley Osborne [00:33:00]:
Yeah. Um, and it also helps for getting guests on your podcast too. I've got a really big guest coming onto the podcast. I can't say yet because we don't have the time, but I'm, I'm insanely excited and I'm 100% certain that she wouldn't have said yes if I did not have the professionalism setup that I do. And so get on people's podcasts, it means you've got to sort it out from the backend first. But I think that is the quickest way to build online businesses, to get your name out there. Social media is a blip, but then if you can strategically then convert them into your world, I think that, that is the winning formula. And get yourself out there.

Hayley Osborne [00:33:43]:
I think networking and going to events with like-minded people You know, like being a part of Her Empire Builder and going to, I remember going to Port Douglas. It set me up with friends for life. Like I'm still beautiful friends with a lot of these people and I've been on all their podcasts because these women, they have the same things as you and vice versa. I've had people as guests on my podcast. I've supported people that have launched books and like the world is, similar when you find similar humans.

Tina Tower [00:34:16]:
And so I do think that live events are something that is very under-resourced by people, especially in the online space, because so much of it we think, you know, posting on social media. But so many of the opportunities that I have got in business and life are from meeting people. And like you just said, last weekend, the weekend before, I went and hiked Mount Kosciuszko with a group of friends. And yeah, Thank you, thank you. Um, all of those friends I met through business, every single one of them we met at either like a business event, we were speaking together, or at a conference of some sort. And I kind of hooked all of these beautiful women together that we go away every year. And it's, it's those real relationships. And so much of that comes out of, um, you know, like I just put Welcome to Adulting for sale, which is like a side course that I've done.

Tina Tower [00:35:05]:
The first person that bought that was a woman whose children I taught when they were like in year 3 and 4, 15 years ago, who are now at the age of welcome to adulting. And she was like, this is full circle, we'll get it. And I'm going, gosh, you just like the reputation that we keep in the real world follows us everywhere through every iteration that we do. And I think that too often we, you know, don't put as much emphasis into that in going like, let's make relationships and connections with people.

Hayley Osborne [00:35:36]:
And I think if you run a business, you've got to be okay with putting yourself out there. So I travel where I can. I haven't been able to, but I'm about to start doing that again. I've been, you know, Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, like everywhere, and I've got friends all over Australia. And I, I love that, that we all are like-minded. And I know if I get in a room with any of them, it's awesome. Like, like you've never left, you know? Yeah, it's, it's interesting.

Tina Tower [00:36:02]:
What's your advice to people that are a bit more introverted and going into big rooms? Because I know that, you know, when you go— I see people all the time, you know, step into Her Empire Builder Conference, for example, and people that know each other and connect the year before, and then they're like, oh my gosh, it's— yeah, it can be hard for people that are rocking up for the first time and going, oh my gosh, I don't know anyone, and I'm not I'm not the most extroverted person. What is your advice there of a way that someone can go and make a connection and get known and be part of it without being the loudest in the room?

Hayley Osborne [00:36:33]:
Yeah, and the loudest doesn't always mean that— I don't know, I get scared from the loudest in the room as well. Like, I think sometimes I would definitely be the loudest in the room, and if you speak to my family, they're like, oh, you are definitely the loudest in the room. But In other situations I'm not. And I think you have to be really clear on your messaging before you step into a room like that. Because if someone asks, what's your name and what do you do?

Tina Tower [00:36:59]:
Yes.

Hayley Osborne [00:37:00]:
Right? And you can't just say, oh, I'm a business coach. No, you're not. Like that's not how it works. You have to be very clear on your message because no one's gonna wanna work with you or, you know, that's not why you're there. But if, sloppy messaging or downplaying.

Tina Tower [00:37:19]:
So often I'll see people go, oh, you know, I just do da da da da da, and it's like a real downplay. It's like, no, this is the time to like own your awesome.

Hayley Osborne [00:37:28]:
Women are very good at that. And I even, I met somebody the other day who was like, oh, I just help my husband with his business and I do the paperwork. I was like, no, you don't. You are so much more than that. And so I think getting your messaging right it makes you more confident. And for you to be able to crown, like, put that crown on hard with what it is that you do. So like, for me, I help— my thing is, you know, I help health professionals to be able to grow to $30K months with scalable offers and a simple marketing system that works without client overload, right? And then it's like, oh, and then people are kind of like, oh. And then I'm like, well, I do this through my podcast, I do this through like the two courses that I have, I do this through it.

Hayley Osborne [00:38:12]:
And so then the conversation opens and like, oh wow, she's really interesting, that's really cool. Yeah, so I think you've gotta figure out what that blasting message is that makes you feel really confident, 'cause when you're confident, no one can tell that you're nervous.

Tina Tower [00:38:28]:
There's an action step for everyone, is practice the pitch.

Hayley Osborne [00:38:31]:
Practice the pitch, short, one paragraph, that's it. Crown yourself with that and then you feel more confident.

Tina Tower [00:38:37]:
And colloquial, like conversational. I think sometimes if it sounds too rehearsed, you feel icky saying it.

Hayley Osborne [00:38:45]:
But it's just, just like, keep it, keep it easy. Yeah, I love it. You're not just a XYZ.

Tina Tower [00:38:51]:
Yeah, 100%. So looking back at when you first joined Her Empire Builder, who were you then and who are you now? Like, how has your attitude towards business changed?

Hayley Osborne [00:39:02]:
Oh, I'm 100 times more confident. Myself and what I stand for. And I'm not afraid to say it and call a spade a spade. And I think that has come from knowledge because growing my knowledge has grown my power and grown my confidence, the ability to know what I'm doing from the front end and the back end. And then I think just starting my podcast and creating my courses, it's helped me to be a better speaker and to just be aligned more with my vision and know what I like and what I don't like. But I think it's definitely grown my knowledge, 'cause that grows how confident you are.

Tina Tower [00:39:42]:
And what's surprised you most throughout the journey as you've grown more into your own business and kind of come away, like let go of that whole corporate persona and into your own thing? What surprised you the most about your growth journey?

Hayley Osborne [00:39:56]:
Well, I don't know, but what surprised me is that I wasn't this person before. Like if I could have taught my younger self a few of these things, like why didn't I step up sooner? Why didn't I do that? And why didn't I give myself, 'cause it's not anyone, no one's gonna, no one's saying, oh, you can't do this. But on the flip side, no one's coming knocking at your door going, knock, knock, okay, you can upgrade yourself to CEO now. You gotta step into that yourself. And I wish I had done that sooner.

Tina Tower [00:40:28]:
It's the knowledge though too. I mean, I said just now, the other day, like in my— I was such an— I tried, I was a quintessential try-hard. I tried everything and I did my best at everything. I go, I wish I had the knowledge and the calm confidence that I have now. If I had the energy that I had then and the knowledge now, oh my gosh, what an incredible combo that'd be.

Hayley Osborne [00:40:52]:
And like, I think definitely doing hard things along the way, doing the things that make you feel uncomfortable. Like I remember delivering a keynote to 300 women It wasn't for an International Women's Day thing. It was just an event. But I was one week away from having my first child and I had the keynote ready to go. And the only thing I didn't account for was my lack of lung space, physical lung space. And so I just was like, whoop, out you go. I can't read that, but I've got 300 people looking at me. And so I just, continued.

Hayley Osborne [00:41:30]:
And I remember thinking, if I can do that, I can do anything. If I can, you know, show up to one—

Tina Tower [00:41:37]:
it's such good proof for you to hang on to.

Hayley Osborne [00:41:40]:
Yeah. Or if I can show up to one of Tina's masterclasses and ask that one question in front of everyone, that is one thing that has moved me forward. And just doing those little things every day, I think. Yeah. I hope that was a good answer. I don't know. I think I— that's a good answer.

Tina Tower [00:41:57]:
I guess. So someone is listening during launch week and they're thinking like, maybe this is my season to go. What would you want them to know when they're getting ready for that like scary level up? Like you said before that no one's gonna anoint you, but now is your time.

Hayley Osborne [00:42:13]:
Oh, what would I say? I think just do it, okay? And I think that they're in good hands with you. You're seasoned, you've done the things. And I think that's just proof that, you know, you, you are the right person to help with— I think just business, like whether you have an online business or not, I think you've done it. And if, if you can't search it in your masterclass library, it doesn't exist anywhere else.

Tina Tower [00:42:46]:
I really, I really do think after 6 years that that could be true.

Hayley Osborne [00:42:51]:
Yeah, I had to do something.

Tina Tower [00:42:54]:
Masterclasses going, what haven't I done?

Hayley Osborne [00:42:57]:
Yeah, everything.

Tina Tower [00:42:57]:
It's time to redo them.

Hayley Osborne [00:42:59]:
Yeah, yeah. But I think have the confidence to back yourself. I've invested, like you said, like before we hit record, you've done a lot of coaching with other people and masterminds and groups and this and that, and so have I. And every time I've invested Every time I continue to invest in myself, it's so scary, uh, but I don't think you can grow unless you do that. I really don't, because you don't know what you don't know.

Tina Tower [00:43:30]:
It's definitely the quicker way.

Hayley Osborne [00:43:32]:
Much quicker.

Tina Tower [00:43:33]:
Yeah, yeah.

Hayley Osborne [00:43:34]:
You've got to back yourself. Yeah. And if you don't back yourself now, then when are you going to do it? When are you going to do it? If you're on the fence, like just do it because you'll be in the same place. You'll be in the same place that you are now in 12 months' time. Your trajectory is a lot faster when you believe in yourself and you invest. It's just money at the end of the day as well. Like, it's transient. It comes in and it leaves and it circles and, you know.

Tina Tower [00:44:02]:
Yeah, I love that. So my final question to you— I like to ask everyone this— what does success mean to you?

Hayley Osborne [00:44:10]:
Freedom, Tina. Freedom to do what I want. Yeah, that's true success. It doesn't look like a million Instagram followers. It doesn't look like a database of 10,000. Those things are nice to have, but that, that, that's an iteration and a smaller tier down from that. But it's freedom. So it's a hybrid model of me being able to take my kids to the playground to travel, to do whatever I want with my family, to not feel guilty.

Hayley Osborne [00:44:39]:
I don't have emails on my phone, uh, to not have to worry about anything when I'm not on, but also to nurture my cup. That's, that's true success.

Tina Tower [00:44:51]:
100% agree. Hayley, thank you so much. I will link to all of your things underneath so everyone can find you and jump onto Instagram and tell Hayley how much you've enjoyed. Yeah, at least listening to her today because she will love— the marketer in her will love that. You need to show her that you heard and you saw. I love having you in Her Empire Builder. You're such a gem.

Hayley Osborne [00:45:12]:
Thanks, Tina.