Tina Tower [00:00:00]:
Hi friends, welcome to Her Empire Builder Show. I am your host Tina Tower, and today I have one of my beautiful friends joining us, the fabulous Ellie Swift. Uh, I have known Ellie for— well, I've been watching her for a few years. Isn't it like that online that you see people, they come into your world a little bit and you kind of become social friends? Um, and then we got to know each other really well last year when I put together a mastermind of all 7-figure Australian business owners, um, and had the pleasure of getting to know Ellie well there. And so I'm really excited to bring her on today to talk to us about masterminds, the changes that we're seeing in the coaching industry, and how she creates such a freedom-filled business and life, um, because her number one priority is being a mom to her beautiful daughter Sunny. So if you haven't seen Ellie around before, Ellie Swift is the mastermind expert and business coach for 6 and 7-figure coaches, mentors, consultants, Creating Scalable Freedom. As an ex-corporate marketer turned CEO, Ellie has become the go-to for people starting and scaling their masterminds through her program, The Mastermind Model. She also runs her own mastermind, the Scalable Freedom Mastermind, where she shares her 10 years of expertise in online business and hosts the Scalable Freedom Show podcast with over 250 episodes available to binge.

Main Episode

Tina Tower [00:01:23]:
Ellie spent a decade working in marketing in London, Sydney, and Perth, achieving her goal of head marketing strategy by age of 28 before making the transition into her business. She built, uh, to a 7-figure business in the first 5 years and has supported her clients as they've built 6 multi-6 and 7-figure businesses, created 6 and multi-5-figure launches, tripled their income, and completely transformed their businesses and lives using mindset, marketing, and strategy. All the good things, right? All right, let's get straight on into it. Here is my fabulous conversation with the wonderful Ellie Swift. The fabulous Ellie Swift, welcome to Her Empire Builder Show.

Ellie Swift [00:02:08]:
Oh, thank you for having me. I really wish we were in person right now, but this feels like just almost as good.

Tina Tower [00:02:14]:
That was my favorite thing about last year was actually getting to see you in person, because when I talk about you to other people, I describe you as human sunshine. And before we hit record, you were like talking about Sunny, your daughter, who I find it So apt that you named her Sunny, because I'm like, you're human sunshine, and you're like, she's human sunshine because she takes after her mama.

Ellie Swift [00:02:35]:
Oh, thank you, my darling friend. I know you've told me that before, and it's so kind of you. It's so nice, actually makes me teary. It's really— isn't it nice? It's very nice to have other girlfriends in any industry where you just, you know, that they're saying beautiful things about you. So thank you. Yes.

Tina Tower [00:02:52]:
Well, isn't that the thing that, you know, I was talking to someone about this the other day and going So many of the opportunities that I've got in business have been by people putting my name forward for things, and it's so important to cultivate our networks and friendships. And yeah, I'm very lucky that I have really good circle of people in our business world, and I know you've cultivated that as well.

Ellie Swift [00:03:13]:
It's true. We had a mastermind call the other day, and one of my clients was talking about another woman and how she does really great Instagram story strategy. She was like, I don't know this woman, but this is her, this is her handle, go and watch how she does X, Y, and Z really well. And I said to this client, I was like, I just love— like, I like to think that something great is happening to this woman right now because she's just got all these people going to follow her. She's going to have no idea where.

Tina Tower [00:03:42]:
She'D be there going, what happened today?

Ellie Swift [00:03:45]:
But there was a group of women on a mastermind call singing her praises. And that's how— that's how good business happens, you know. Like, so yeah. I love that so much, and I agree. If you just, you know, really gave reverence to peers and other people in your industry, like, that in itself becomes such an effective strategy, and you're not even being strategic.

Tina Tower [00:04:08]:
Yes, totally. Um, okay, so you've got a little Sunny, and I do love, um, you know, I do love talking to people that have little kids because my kids are giant kids. I have, I have made these big Adonis men, um, which I do find really helpful because so many women with young children are kind of going, you know, how do I, how do I deal with the struggle of wanting to do both? Being ambitious, still wanting to set the world on fire, but also not wanting to leave my baby's side at all. And so I wanted to touch on that just a little bit for all of the, all of the people that are building online businesses that have the young children. If we rewound to the version of you before motherhood and compared her to who you are today, what is the biggest internal shift that's happened since Sunny arrived?

Ellie Swift [00:04:59]:
I would say that everything has just become more intentional for me. So what I mean by that is that, you know, I think that a lot of my fears that I had before Sunny was that I was going to have her and I was going to be less ambitious, and that did not happen. In fact, what did happen is I actually became more ambitious, but I had less time and I had to be be far more intentional about how I spent that time. So what shifted was I went from being like, I can build and scale this business and I can do it in any which way because my business is the center point of my life, to going, well, Sunny is now everything to me. There are a lot of things I'm not going to trade off because I want to prioritize time with her above everything. But also, how do I do that and still continue to grow and scale and have all these ambitions in my business? So I just had to get so intentional about how I did everything. And so really, practically speaking, what that looks like is like a lot of planning. And I know I'm speaking to a fellow planner, but like, if you saw.

Tina Tower [00:06:10]:
My— my love language— if you saw.

Ellie Swift [00:06:14]:
My life, there is nothing accidental about what I'm doing in my life. I can tell you my values, I can tell you my order of priorities, and my time is set up to meet each of those things. I know exactly how much time I want to be able to spend with Sunny, and I know what's a non-negotiable. And I also know what I want to do in my business and how I'm making that happen. And the tension that I feel in this season of my life is that it's like a constant, um, math equation that I'm having to solve on any given day of the week. So I'm constantly having to trade off different things to be able to do both. And I live in that dance. I know that balance doesn't exist, and so I'm not trying to create balance.

Ellie Swift [00:07:01]:
I just don't think it's possible. Actually, what I find is that for me and for anyone I see who's also doing this is you have to get really okay with just living in the dance and knowing that you're constantly going to be in flux. A little bit more mumming, a little bit more business, or business thing for me. Okay, it's just not going to get that today. I have to be okay with a few balls dropping here. My daughter requires me more, like being okay with being in that. And that, I think, is some of the deepest work, is knowing that you are going to be in flux constantly, having to be really intentional about where you devote your time, how you devote your time, knowing that you're never going to be doing everything all of the time. And that is just life, and that is okay.

Tina Tower [00:07:43]:
100%. And I do think there's a couple things that you said that I love. I do think that there's no one as productive as a mom with young children running a business. Like, it's like next level. You treat the time so preciously. But Also, I love that you are so open about being intentional because I do think that there is this rhetoric sometimes of like, it all just flows to me and it all happens so easily. And then I do find a lot of women will beat themselves up going, gosh, it's harder for me than it is for everybody else because everyone's making it look so easy. And I think you and I both have that in common in that we are very intentional about the life that we lead and very planned for that and what we're available for and what we're not available for and boundaried.

Tina Tower [00:08:25]:
And it doesn't happen by accident. It it is there. And I know when I had young kids, like, there were different things, you know, you just simply can't do everything. We can, we can eventually, but in that season, it's a very tight season. So what is— it was there a moment in your business where you realized, like, I can't run my business the same way anymore? Like, something practical that you were like, you know what, I can't do this this way? And did you resist it? Did you redesign it? Like, what did you have to change?

Ellie Swift [00:08:56]:
My journey was a teeny bit different in that because I spent 3 years in preconception, a lot of the, the changes happened in that time. So one of the biggest things that I did was I shut down one of my masterminds and went all in on— well, it was 2 then, it's 1 now, but I previously had 3. So I— and they were just different tiers. So I had Swift Mind, what is now the Scalable Freedom Mastermind, and my Swift Inner Circle. And there was a period of time where I was like energetically I'm holding a lot of people. I want to condense this down to just the two masterminds. That was a knowing of I'm just not going to be able to take this with me into the next season. So that was— I think I was like halfway through my IVF journey when I did that.

Ellie Swift [00:09:45]:
And then the other thing that I've actually found has been like realizing that there are so many things that I just can't control, and therefore not a problem. And so, like, again, practically, I can do things within the time that I have because I'm clear on what I can and what I can't do. But what I don't have time to do is stew on shit that I can't control. Yeah. No, and we were talking about this a little bit offline before, like, really recognizing when stuff is going to come up in business all the time, and I don't have the energetic capacity to move through and process those things in the way that I used to because my nervous system is predominantly devoted to my little girl.

Tina Tower [00:10:27]:
Yeah.

Ellie Swift [00:10:28]:
So it's more been the unseen stuff that I've had to condense and work through and go, I just don't— like, that just can't be a problem for me. And so it makes me more discerning. It makes me like a little bit tougher. I think this is the ultimate combination of moms in business. Like, you are more heart open than you've ever been. You're more compassionate, you're more empathic. All those traits that we know now the data says makes us better leaders. And also I'm a little bit harder in the ways that I need to be, which also makes me a more effective business owner.

Ellie Swift [00:11:02]:
So I wouldn't change that for anything. I think it just makes me more effective, more powerful. And I see that in the mirror that I am to my clients as well.

Tina Tower [00:11:11]:
Because your business, it didn't contract when you had Sunny, like your revenue, you've continued to grow, you've continued to thrive, you've continued to evolve going throughout. So there is a lot of that stuff that you, you go, what you were doing before, You weren't— you weren't— I won't say wasting time on things before because you weren't wasting time.

Ellie Swift [00:11:31]:
I'll say it. I was.

Tina Tower [00:11:33]:
Yeah, because now it's like business has continued to grow. And I think sometimes like the, the fear of a lot of women that I talk to that, that are considering or going into motherhood is that my business will contract when that happens. And I do think that no, there's just a lot of things that you've got to let go of that you just can't care about anymore.

Ellie Swift [00:11:52]:
Can I add to that? Because something that we haven't spoken to here, which I think is such a key part of this, is that I was always building this business for this season.

Tina Tower [00:12:01]:
Yeah.

Ellie Swift [00:12:03]:
So, you know, part of the reason why I'm so obsessed with the mastermind business model, and I know you are too, is that it enables you to make amazing money, create amazing impact, but also move through the different seasons of your life as a mother and as a woman. And so when I was building my business coming out of corporate, I did not want to create for myself the life that I had in corporate, which was, you know, I was in a head of strategy role that was very inflexible. I was chained to my desk, I was in meetings.

Tina Tower [00:12:35]:
I have no idea how any full-time employed woman manages a family at the same time.

Ellie Swift [00:12:40]:
Like, completely agree, completely agree. And look, I did actually recreate that for the first couple of years when I worked with one-to-one clients, and I kind of knew what I was doing because I knew that there was an element of I've got to go deep with clients to actually work out what my IP is, what my framework is, the problems that I'm solving. And then from there I can work more in a one-to-many way. And I think ultimately, you know, the power of hindsight, I'm like, that served me. But also it was never going to be sustainable for me. Like, like the, the model that I ultimately wanted to build was one that I could build into motherhood. And so I also think that, you know, we can be short-sighted as humans building businesses. So often we're like, how do I make X amount of money next month and the month after? When the questions we actually need to ask are, what do I want from my life 5 years, 10 years, 20 years down the line? And am I building a business now that actually aligns with that future?

Tina Tower [00:13:40]:
I love that. What is your definition of success? When you talk about the— because we did, um, before we hit record, we were joking a little bit about the changing perceptions of women like killing it online. And I was like, I was part of something once that, um, I was part of a mastermind in the US and 3 people there had rented out a private jet for photoshoots to like do their brand shoot of here I am on my front. But the thing didn't take off from the ground and I just thought it was the most stupid, ridiculous thing that I'd ever seen. Um, and You know, my thing is, for a lot of women that I talk to, that's actually not the definition of success anyway. I mean, I would rather— I would rather business class tickets for me and my family and go for a month. Like, that's what I'm going for. But what is— what is your definition of success? What does that look like for you?

Ellie Swift [00:14:30]:
It's a life where I get to live out my values, you know, over a long period of time. And for me, that is family first and foremost. It is living out an abundant life because I have, you know, grown up with someone who doesn't have a lot of money, and I've built, you know, a certain amount of wealth within my life and within my family. And I love the choice and freedom that that brings for me and for us. And again, I know I'm talking to someone who, you know, also really knows that. And it's also being able to be doing work where I can grow and create change and create impact. I'm I built this business because I had a clear mission. Like, I'm very mission-driven in the way that I work.

Ellie Swift [00:15:17]:
I'm always trying to think about doing better and being better and creating more impact. And I don't associate impact with high volume. I associate it with depth and the actual, you know, lasting change of when you work with an individual and you see they earn more money and it goes into their communities, and it— like, those ripple effects and how big that is. It's living a life where I can live out those values. Practically speaking, it's a where when Sunny goes to school, you know, her and her future sibling, I'm going to be able to do school pickup and school drop-off. It's a world where whatever my children need from me, I'm going to be able to be there for them. It's a world where I do work that I genuinely enjoy and I'm excited by every day, and I'm ultimately living this life that just fulfills my soul. You know, that, that is success for me, and very, um, it's very 360.

Ellie Swift [00:16:12]:
So it's ultimately why I created the term scalable freedom, because I think about freedom as, well, if you are building an incredible business, you have this opportunity to create a lifestyle business where you scale it to create freedom as you go. And we've never really lived in a time where we get to do that. You know, we know businesses as you either work your butt off for 60 years and then you retire, or if you're smart, you build something where you get a really incredible exit. But for the first time ever, we're able to build these lifestyle businesses where if we're really intentional about how we scale, we can create freedom alongside it. And like, that's the life I want to live.

Tina Tower [00:16:54]:
It is such an incredible business model. And I'll be honest, when I first saw it— like, we came into online about the same time in 2016— and at the time All the big ones were Marie Forleo, James Wedmore, Amy Porterfield, pretty much still the big ones now. Um, but they were all the rage and I had been starting to see their things at the time. I was just about to sell my bricks and mortar, like traditional business that I had going, and I was doing some business coaching. And so I was starting to get pushed a lot of their stuff and I had seen it and like, not ashamed to say, I was like, bullshit, like it can't work like that. That's, that's not a real thing. And then when I did my first launch, And I made $11 grand in the first week, which for some people is impressive, for some people it's not much at all. But it was the first thing that I'd ever done that was like not dependent on time and so leveraged and so scalable and could impact and help so many people without me having to one-on-one handhold in that.

Tina Tower [00:17:54]:
And it was such a revelation. And I think the last 10 years though, we have seen a lot of changes. I still think from a business model point of view, it is unrivaled. Like in what other world can we work the way we work, do work that sometimes I'm like, like we've got a retreat in Fiji in June and I'm like, we call it work, like that's just the funniest best thing ever. But a lot has changed. So from your perspective, what parts of the online course industry have you seen change the most and what do you think isn't working anymore?

Ellie Swift [00:18:28]:
So to answer this question, I feel like I just need to give my overall view on the coaching online industry. The way, the way I think about this is that the coaching industry is a relatively new industry, right? It's really started in like the '80s and '90s, really new. And so when we look at history and we look at patterns, we ultimately see these new industries where they'll have like a gold rush period and then it kind of stabilizes. So we saw the coaching industry come in, the education industry get really big in the '90s, and then the internet— sounds so ridiculous to say it in that way— but the internet then— you.

Tina Tower [00:19:10]:
Know, like, on that, on that note, so I'm doing a keynote speech next month with children, like, about balancing children and business, which I've never spoken publicly about before. And so I went to get, like, baby photos of when I ran a business with a baby strapped to my chest. And Ellie, there weren't digital cameras until my son was 9 months old. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so old.

Ellie Swift [00:19:33]:
We've truly just been around that long. We've just lived all the seasons. It's wild. Like, and we don't think about this, but so coaching industry, internet, like new industry, new industry. And so, you know, you come into like 2010 to 2020 and we had this absolute gold rush of a time where the education industry and the online industry were both new. And so what that meant was that you could enter this space and do things half well and make a lot, a lot, a lot of money, like you just said. And so what happens when that occurs? People rush in. The barrier to entry is so low in the coaching industry.

Ellie Swift [00:20:16]:
We're not a regulated industry. So people rush in, they rush in, they rush in. And then of course, what happens to, you know, customer sentiment? People start going, oh, I don't know if this is worth that amount. I don't know if the value exchange is actually there, because in amidst people that are doing a fantastic job of actually delivering on their product, you've also got the people who aren't. And so if we fast forward to now, what I think when we look at the post-COVID time in particular within the coaching, online mentoring spaces, we're seeing a lot of people feeling a little bit like jardined and you know, um, cynical about what they're purchasing because maybe they were burnt during that time, or maybe they've seen a lot of people who aren't actually good at what they do, which is very real. And so the reason why I feel like it's important to share that is because what I see is just the practical layer of that cycle, which is that, you know, we went through a period where we would really purchase anything and everything And now we're being far more discerning. We're in a, a market where there is a lot of choice because there are a lot more people in the industry. And what that requires of us is to actually be really great at delivering on our product, actually be really great at running a business, AKA selling and marketing.

Ellie Swift [00:21:38]:
And where I feel really excited by that is that all good things— the women in your community and my community, they're the ones who are going to thrive because they're actually really great at what they do and they're willing to double down on what it actually actually takes to run a business. I think that in the couple of years to come, we're going to see a lot of weeding out of people who are just not good at what they do or who built businesses based off other people's IP. And I think in 2026 in particular, especially when it comes to masterminds, we're going to be so discerning about purchasing from somebody where we can see that their IP is a living, breathing embodiment of them. So, you know, when I look at your business and your mastermind, You have such a clear story pathway. What you teach is your lived experience. You've got runs on the board. There's a lot of people out there who aren't running masterminds in that way. I think those masterminds are going to die out.

Ellie Swift [00:22:32]:
The people who leverage their expertise really clearly, they're the ones that are going to win.

Tina Tower [00:22:37]:
Yeah. Or the other day I was talking to someone who was saying, you know, a few years ago people were happy to pay 20, 30K a year for these high-end masterminds with people that were kind of Insta-famous and they didn't really have all the knowledge base, or they, they wouldn't, you know, they're not available for any questions or personal contact. Where it's like now people are being more discerning and going, actually, if you, you don't have time for me, I'm not going to, to pay you. And, and the expectation of delivery I think is higher.

Ellie Swift [00:23:08]:
I completely agree with that. I completely agree with that. I think that, um, so the framework I teach inside the Mastermind Model is the 5 C's, like knowing that when you're setting up a mastermind, you want to be looking at your call structure, your coaching between call structure, your community, your curriculum, and your container criteria. And as you just said, a lot of those masterminds, they didn't have any of those, like literally not a single one. And so now we're just having to be more specific about delivery and actual setup of the mastermind, as well as how we're selling it and making sure that those two things are really congruent. And when we do that well, we get really amazing retention. That's when we can create a mastermind that snowballs to being the multi-six, seven-figure dollar product. Yeah, seven-figure dollar.

Tina Tower [00:23:56]:
Right? That's, that's what we want. That's what we want. Um, even though it is rare, like, I will tell people that as well. I was very surprised when I started Her Empire Builder. I very publicly said my goal— so we started in 2020— my goal was by 2024 to have 100 women making $1 million a year. And I was like, this is going to be on, like, let's go. We did 7 by 2024, which I'm still proud of. In Kajabi, there are 17 women that are making— not 17 women, 17 people that are making $1 million a year through Kajabi.

Tina Tower [00:24:29]:
So it's, it's lower than what we, what we expect. What do you think it is that stops more people from reaching that 7-figure mark that we hear talked about in the online industry so much?

Ellie Swift [00:24:44]:
I think it would be so remiss of me to try and condense it into one thing because I don't believe that it is one thing. If I were to, um, identify a couple of things, I would say the first is mindset, belief, identity. Like, you've, you've got to truly anchor into and believe and embody that you are going to be the 7-figure business owner. And so, you know, I really believe that you cannot build a business higher than the level than you are willing to play at. And so I think that we're in a time where we don't have enough examples of that, and so there's not enough of that pattern recognition yet for people to actually believe and embody that they can be that person. I know for myself, you too, it takes a lot to decide that you're going to do that because you're breaking lineage, you're, you know, doing things that most people aren't, like, that is huge.

Tina Tower [00:25:38]:
Yeah, the audacity to rise, the audacity.

Ellie Swift [00:25:41]:
To be that bitch, right? Like, it's— yeah, yeah. And then the second piece is strategy. You know, when I work with my clients, I'm sure you do too, we have to start by going, well, what actually is the business model to 7 figures? And a lot of the time we don't know what that is and what that looks like. I remember spending multiple years being like, I can't see it yet. I had to be able to unlock what 7 figures actually looked like on paper for my business to be able to chase that. And then the third is the marketing. Like, to be a 7-figure mastermind business owner, you've got to embody the personal brand, you've got to go after it, you've got to be consistent, you've got to do that on repeat. So you've really got to lock down those 3 things and know that it's just ever evolving what's required from you from a mindset perspective, a strategy perspective, a marketing perspective.

Ellie Swift [00:26:30]:
It's going to shift and change, and you've just got to be so, I think, resilient and trust yourself and believe in yourself so much to constantly want to move through those levels. Like, it's not for the faint-hearted, but the rewards are so great if you're willing to commit to it. I don't know about you, but sometimes I look back and I'm like, where did I have the audacity to think that or do that or be that? But you've, you've just got to keep coming back to that fire and commit to it again and again.

Tina Tower [00:27:00]:
And I love that you said like the constant evolving, that constant evolution. I think that is so important because, you know, we always think— I know I did at the start of my business— like, once I get here, I'll be fine, like it'll be smooth sailing from there. But it's like that, that commitment to that constant experimenting and continuous improvement, because it is, it's, it's all ever growing. Um, so you are known— I think you've owned the space so well to position yourself as like the mastermind queen. Like, you are known for that, running those deep, those high-touch rooms. Who is not suited to running a mastermind, even if they're really successful in their field?

Ellie Swift [00:27:38]:
Someone who doesn't care about people. That's, you know, the first thing that comes to my mind. If you, if you don't care about facilitating transformation in others, don't do it. Yeah, you've got to genuinely want to facilitate transformation in others, which means that you've got to be willing to be in relationship with other people. You've got to be willing to hold space individually and collectively. You've got to be, uh, you know, willing to be someone who can take feedback. There is a lot that you can't control when you're a mastermind leader, right? You're, you're constantly in relationship with others. And if you don't want to do that, if you want to really introvert hard in your business and never create community, then a mastermind is not for you.

Ellie Swift [00:28:34]:
And I will caveat that with, you know, you and I run very different businesses, and yet we both run like mastermind businesses. So for example, I see your business as such an extroverted mastermind business. You run big conferences, you hold a lot of external space.

Tina Tower [00:28:48]:
No, I'm so introverted.

Ellie Swift [00:28:51]:
Well, it's so true, and I know this about you, but I also know you do that so well.

Tina Tower [00:28:56]:
I just, I love the community aspect.

Ellie Swift [00:28:58]:
Yes. See, I love the, I love what comes from like quieter rooms where things are whispered between one another in ways that don't happen elsewhere. And a lot of that occurs online. I also like smaller community spaces, like smaller workshops or smaller retreats. And so, you know, what I'm talking about there is not like you have to have the big loud conferences, but you have to have the smaller rooms. The cool thing about masterminds is you really get to, you know, you can have a 10-person experience, a 50-person, a 500-person experience. You can— well, as a person group.

Tina Tower [00:29:34]:
That I ran last year, like, I loved that. I'd never had a small group like that, and I was like, it's such a different vibe.

Ellie Swift [00:29:41]:
Totally, totally. And I think that people either associate masterminds as like small 10-person experiences or 500-person experiences. I find that there's not a lot of like nuance between how people see them, and it's that reminder that a mastermind really gets to be that smaller, deeper space, or that creative space. But you've got to want to really care about transformation of.

Tina Tower [00:30:06]:
What is the biggest mistake that you see people making when they go to launch their mastermind? Or do some people launch it too early? Like, what are the red flags?

Ellie Swift [00:30:17]:
Biggest mistake by and large is that people are thinking about launching a mastermind to fulfill something in their business for the short term rather than about the potential of the long term. So what I mean by that is they'll go, I'm going to launch a mastermind for 10 people. I'm going to curate it to be the most incredible space for these 10 people. And it's going to generate me, you know, $150K in my business this year, and oh my goodness, I'm going to hit all my goals. But what can often happen is that you curate a space for 10 people, you kind of in the back of your mind know that you'd love to scale it to 100 people, but you've built out this space that you can't scale to 100 people because you've got like calls every second week one-to-one with these humans. And so ultimately, you know, you're building something that's going to serve and support you now, but it's not going to serve support you in the long term. Whereas all you got to do is really basic maths to just walk yourself through, what do I actually want this to look like? Know that you can absolutely and should start smaller— not should, but you get to start smaller. You only need 2 people to create a mastermind, and you get to build it.

Ellie Swift [00:31:18]:
But if you're thinking about your end goal, then you're going to create a better mastermind experience that's going to sustain you for the long term and actually be the mastermind that is the multi-six or seven-figure business model.

Tina Tower [00:31:29]:
Yes, I love that. I would 100% agree in that a lot of people don't start as they mean to continue. Like, don't imagine if you're, if you're successful, like if everything turns out great, what's that day-to-day going to look like? I see so many people at the beginning bloat their offers to get people in, but then you can't take anything away. You end up running yourself ragged. Yes. Um, so I think what, what is difficult for a lot of people in running masterminds is the space that we hold for other people. And there is a lot of power in holding space for other people. How do you personally resource yourself so that, you know, you're not leaking out all that energy and you're not carrying that with you home and, and taking that all on while still, still being there to support everyone? I know one of my favorite Oprah quotes was, um, big open heart, huge fucking fence.

Tina Tower [00:32:20]:
And that is what I think of when I think of of this, but how do you deal with holding space for so many people in, you know, the area that you're in and the area that I'm in with people building business, which is so vulnerable, and people having to really unravel so much of themselves personally? How do you deal with that?

Ellie Swift [00:32:40]:
I would say that this is probably one of the biggest personal journeys that I've had to go on running this type of business, so I just want to preface it with first of all, that I am not perfect around this, and it's been an area that I've had to lean into so much. It's also an area that I talk about so much inside the Mastermind Model for that reason, because no one has those conversations, but yet they're the thing that people feel most. So I say that first of all, like, to your point, if that— if, you know, you're listening to this and you run a mastermind and you feel that way, it's really common. That people running masterminds have to consider their, like, energy protection and what that looks like for them. It's interesting you said that Oprah quote because I think about the Brené Brown one, which is really similar, which they're like soft front, hard back. Like, I think about that all the time. You've got to be open and compassionate, but you also need to be really boundaried and clear. So coming back to the open heart.

Tina Tower [00:33:41]:
Spine of steel, I think she said— did she say that, or someone else say that? There must be many similar ones that are all giving us this wisdom.

Ellie Swift [00:33:49]:
I there is such wisdom, especially for us as women. I think so much of our power is in our openness, and we don't want to contract that. So, so I mentioned those 5 C's before. That container criteria part of the framework is really important because I think that energy management starts with your boundaries and your container and setting it up so that you can really support yourself energetically and not have those leaks. So there's a strategic part of it for me when I'm creating and running a mastermind is being really clear on what the boundaries are and aren't. Now, outside of that, of course, again, coming back to you're working with humans, you're working in relationship, you can never control the energy of others. How do you navigate that? I'm, I'm really big on like, I'm going to show up and give my whole heart, and I'm going to shut my door at the end of the day and devote my myself, to myself and my family. And so a lot of it is like really simple practices, like closing a group call and like I exhale 3 times.

Ellie Swift [00:34:53]:
I do it religiously. I've done it for years. Like I exhale 3 times and I say, I give back any energy that's not mine. I give back any energy that's not mine. Because I know that I'll just like sit with some of that otherwise, and it'll just pour into the rest of my day. So even just having the intention and The mindfulness around knowing that when you're holding space like that, there's going to be so much energy that is not yours that you need to give back. And just knowing what is yours versus what is theirs, having it set up so you've got boundaries, and then just being so intentional about continuing to give it back.

Tina Tower [00:35:31]:
I 100% agree with all of that because it is the hardest thing that I think— like, I— my simple ones at the moment is I do the breathing at the end, but then the sauna and before I had the sauna, I used to have the, um, you know, the shower where you just wash everything away and do that. And even just app blocking so that I don't get Facebook group notifications, I don't get Voxer notifications, like just blocking it out. Because even when you see it— and that's the problem with running online business, I think— that it can be on 24/7 if you let it. And so you have to have those boundaries there to let your energy fill back up so you can then pour brought into other people as well.

Ellie Swift [00:36:09]:
It's one of the great things about having small children and having family and having life outside of it is that you're so much better when you have those boundaries and you've switched the things off and you go do your other things. You know, you, you then get to actually give— like, right now, the state of the world, I'm constantly playing with like, how informed do I need to be versus how much do I need to protect my energy? Yeah, that's a dance that I'm constantly like like back and forth in between. But it's that same thing, you've just got to have your boundaries to know that you can live the way you want to.

Tina Tower [00:36:42]:
Yeah, sure. Okay, I have 3 rapid questions to finish you on. We ready? Yeah, I know. And always I'm like, I bet you each one, like, you could do like a full 10-15 minute answer on each of them. Okay, one belief about business that you've outgrown.

Ellie Swift [00:37:00]:
That it's just about me as a solopreneur.

Tina Tower [00:37:05]:
One metric that you no longer worship?

Ellie Swift [00:37:09]:
Views.

Tina Tower [00:37:12]:
Yes, isn't that like all the vanity metrics that we used to care so much about? It's like it doesn't matter. Although, mind you, like, caveat, but isn't it harder now on social media that nobody is commenting and engaging as much as they to PSA to everyone: when you see someone putting themselves out there, give them an outer girl.

Ellie Swift [00:37:30]:
Yeah, it's true.

Tina Tower [00:37:31]:
Pop it on there, or do a sister a solid. Um, and final one: one thing that you will never sacrifice again?

Ellie Swift [00:37:40]:
I sacrifice again myself.

Tina Tower [00:37:43]:
I love that. Yeah, I love that. You are amazing.

Ellie Swift [00:37:48]:
Thank you, honey.

Tina Tower [00:37:50]:
You're amazing. You're awesome. We've got all the links of where to find you. I do think if anyone's wanting to pull together a mastermind, I know that I was talking to one of my members the other day and she's like, I'm using Ellie's mastermind method to be able to go through and craft everything. I'm like, so good. Um, you're so— I think one thing that stands out about your work is you do care so deeply. You do it so professionally, so good. Like you give a shit, many of them.

Tina Tower [00:38:16]:
Um, and I think that comes across in everything. Yeah. Very, very high quality as well as being such a beautiful space. So thank you for everything that you bring to everyone. You're incredible.

Ellie Swift [00:38:26]:
Thank you, my friend. That means the world, and likewise in all the ways.