Tina Tower [00:00:00]:
Hello and welcome to her empire builder show. I'm Tina Tower. It is so great to be with you. Today we are talking about one of my favorite things today is selling high ticket products. So today is all about conversion psychology, whether or not you should have a high ticket product, what is involved in a high ticket and how to actually sell it. The good news is that I actually find it way easier to sell high ticket than I do to sell low ticket. So what I find is when I run different experiments, like it's the same amount of energy and effort that goes into selling a $15,000 program as it is to sell a $1,500 program as it is to sell a$150 program. And so a lot of the time I think, why not sell something more high ticket? It's usually a greater transformation, it is usually more fun to be able to deliver and it usually gets people better results.

Main Episode

Tina Tower [00:00:59]:
So it's a win win on all of and so today that is what I want to go through with you. So when we are starting, selling high ticket isn't about being slick. It is about being deeply understood. So what I would like to tell you to explain that is selling high ticket is a lot more connective than selling to many, many people on bulk. So you know what it's like when you buy a program that's 100 bucks. You may not know the person that's selling it. You may not like them, you may not trust them, you might not even know who they are. But you're like, you know what, that product seems good.

Tina Tower [00:01:41]:
I'll give it a go. Add to cart that is different with a high ticket product. With a high ticket, you're usually going to research the person a little bit. You're going to look at do people like you do business with people like them. You're going to look at the different people that have done business and got results with them before. You're going to be looking at what their experience is. You're going to make sure that you gel with them. Well, there's a lot of different things that you're going to look at for that.

Tina Tower [00:02:07]:
It means that you need to deeply understand your customer and it means that you need to give your customer the opportunity to understand you as well so that you can build this relationship that's going to be really transformative for people. For me, what I think is when it comes to high ticket and selling high ticket, there are things that work in a sales process and a lot of it is instead of going wide, going deep with people. So for example, it matters less about your mass social media plan than it does with personal connections. So usually when I go to start a high ticket program, so I have a couple of them, I have Empress Circle Mastermind which is for women that are running digital courses that are over $100,000 a year that want to build to the seven figure business. So that is Empress Circ. We cover everything for the business engine behind. We have groups of eight team pods every month that we have accountability calls, we have live events twice a year for them. That is Empress Circle.

Tina Tower [00:03:14]:
And then I have Impact Mastermind which is for men and women doing over a million a year and have been for at least a few years. So they've got really reliable, sustainable business models. And we have one call a month where we get on and strategize with each other like hot seat style once a month for two hours. And then we have two four day retreats every year as well. They're the two high end programs that I run now. When it came to Impact Mastermind, for example, from a marketing point of view, I never put it out publicly. I have no sales page for it. I did no social media for it.

Tina Tower [00:03:58]:
I don't do any of the traditional course selling things because I'm not selling selling to many people. What I did was I sat down and I made a list of everybody that I knew that fit the criteria that I was looking for and people that I knew would actually gel with the other people in the group. People that I was like, you know what, like they could find their best friend here. They could help each other to grow and like be competitive with each other enough to inspire them to move to the next level that they want to go to. And so what I did was once I had that list, I then individually reached out to each of those people and invited them to be able to join. I filled that at 10 people. I approached 12 to be able to do it. So there was only two people that was like, you know what, it's not the right time for me to be able to do that right now.

Tina Tower [00:04:47]:
So you have to like, you have to reach out to a lot less people than if you're trying to make the same amount of money with something lower ticket. And so to me, high ticket, high ticket is also my favorite thing to be able to run because I like going deep with people, I like knowing people a lot more. So I like the smaller group settings. And then with Empress Circle again, we don't do mass marketing just for Empress Circle. I Usually put out one or two emails. We only take people at the start of financial year and the start of calendar year each time. Again, we don't have a sales page for that. It's written on a Google Doc and I will reach out to people that I know that would be right for it.

Tina Tower [00:05:29]:
Or sometimes people will contact me and say I'm wanting to be a part of that and then I'll give them the application so they can apply. We have a call together, work out if it's a right fit and then we go from there. So it's a really different sales process. We do. So it's November now. When this episode comes out, we start fresh in the new year. If you are wanting to join any of my masterminds, just DM me the word on Facebook or Instagram mastermind and we'll have a chat and I'll send you the information on that in there as well. Cause I know it's not something that's right for everybody, but for the people that it's right for, it is perfect for.

Tina Tower [00:06:10]:
And that is what you're looking to do with a high end product is don't be everything to everyone. Be perfect for the person that you are seeking to work with. So in this episode we're going to pull back the curtain on why people actually buy high ticket programs and how to communicate your value in a way that creates the confident. Yes, because it is a higher value and a higher investment than most of the programs. So you also need to deliver on that value. Okay, so what high ticket buyers really want, there's a few different things that when people are looking to be part of something that's high ticket, this is what they're going for. They're going for certainty. They want to know is this going to work for me? And that is with anything.

Tina Tower [00:06:59]:
But the stakes are higher. So if you're buying something low ticket, it's like, well, I'm willing to take the risk. Like if it works, it works. If it doesn't, you know, I'll probably learn something along the way that I can use. When people are paying out big money, they're like, whatever that transformation promises, I want to make sure that it's actually going to work for me. Second is they want transformation, not just information. So definitely with high ticket people are usually already pretty damn successful if they're going for that level. And so they've got a lot of the information.

Tina Tower [00:07:31]:
What they're looking for is to like unlock that next part. They're looking for that proximity to other people that are going for the same thing. They're looking for that transformation in mindset as well as strategy. They want relevance. So they don't, they don't want to feel like, you know, they're just one person in a big C, but they want to feel like they're. They matter, like they've got that significance, that this is custom to their situation, that no matter where they are, you will be able to adapt your information and your knowledge to help them in their own personal, private situation be able to achieve that outcome. They want to trust the mentor. So a lot of the time when selling high ticket, it's more like you've walked the path before them.

Tina Tower [00:08:23]:
You have the experience that you are able to pass on to other people. And so you can lead them there, you can lead them to where they want to go. Sometimes that is the case, but not always. So what I mean by that is when I come into number five, that is, people are after community and connection. Usually with high ticket, people are looking for deep connection, human connection. They're not looking for just like being a faceless person in a zoom room. They want to get to know people. They want to get to know you.

Tina Tower [00:08:56]:
And this is where I say there's a difference between point four and zero. Point five is sometimes you'll situate yourself as the leader who has been there before and that you are guiding people. Sometimes you are more the facilitator. So if I look at Empress Circle Mastermind, for example, people, people are definitely joining Empress Circle because they know I have done what they want to do. They know that I already have built a multimillion dollar business that I have sustained for the last five years. And they want to know how they can do it as well. So I can guide them through all of my experience, my failures, my triumphs, all of that sort of thing. Where that differs from like my impact mastermind is impact is mainly people at the same level as me, or we have some members that are above where I am that make millions and millions of dollars a year, way more than what I do.

Tina Tower [00:09:49]:
And so with that, rather than me taking the role of being the teacher and the guide, I take the role there of more the facilitator and the curator. So I definitely do a little bit of teaching in there because I like to be at the forefront of AI that's happening and lifestyle design. But there's also like everyone in the group is, is pretty damn kick ass at what they do. Everyone could teach everyone something. And so it is a Different sort of a model where it's like, what we're doing is we're getting a lot of people in there for community and connection that can cheer each other on to greater heights, that can be a sounding board for each other as going, hey, I'm thinking of this new idea, or I'm thinking of changing direction and doing this. What are your thoughts? And everyone has value in saying, hey, I tried this, this worked, this didn't, or I tried this, or have you thought about doing this? I did this. My role is more facilitator, curator in that container that we have there. So it can sometimes be a little bit different.

Tina Tower [00:10:54]:
But with all of it, people aren't buying your course with high ticket. What they're buying is the future version of themselves that they think that being part of your program can help unlock. And so what you have to figure out is how can you help people unlock that future version of themselves throughout the journey of the container that you're offering? Next, I want to talk about the power of positioning. So high ticket offers are a different conversation than what we're used to selling through, like lower ticket courses or like normal courses that we're used to around that thousand, $2,000 price point. What they require is a lot of clarity. They require a lot of confidence. You have to be sure. You have to be sure in what you are offering.

Tina Tower [00:11:40]:
You can't ask someone for thousands and thousands of dollars while you're like, I'm just like beta rounding this. I don't know, you guys, like, we're just gonna see what's gonna happen. Like, no, it's not gonna work. You need to be sure in your offer. You need to know that you are crystal clear on what it is that you're offering and that you are the best person possible to be able to guide them on this journey. So you need crystal clear clarity. You need to have the confidence to hold the space and you need to have the authority. So there's no, like, I would say, if you're cutting your teeth, go like that low to medium offer.

Tina Tower [00:12:19]:
Only go high offer when you know you shit because you make a mistake with that and you rep, your reputation won't recover from it. So you really need to be able to be at the top of your game with them. Your messaging has to say, like, this is for you. Like, talk directly to that person. You're not going for many, you're going for few. And so it needs to be able to be perfect for that perfect person. So you need to be able to go like, I know exactly what you're going through, let me help you. You need to be able to say, here's what will change, here's why I'm the best person to be able to help you with that.

Tina Tower [00:12:57]:
You need to be able to like talk about the scarcity because it is something that is not for everybody. And that's the point. The point of having high ticket is because you're looking for those smaller cohorts so you don't have to be all things to all people. You can have really crystal clear messaging and going, this is the type of person that it is for. And if you are that person, come on in, that's perfect. If not, there's always other programs that people can choose. So what I would like to say is you're always looking for someone who is already winning. People that are going into and this is why I love running high end masterminds is because you work with really good people, like people that are already winning, people that are already doing really well and want to go bigger and want to go better.

Tina Tower [00:13:48]:
So you're working with motivated, inspired, fabulous people that are ready for more, that want to unlock that and that is great energy to be around. So I mean high end masterminds, so much fun. Next is the conversion psychology principle to go through. So what we want to do is I want to tell you the different things that build that emotional and psychological triggers to build trust and drive action into saying yes to doing business with you. The first one is status. People that are going for high end are going for more status. They want something that's more exclusive. They don't just want to be another bare bum in the shower.

Tina Tower [00:14:33]:
They want to be someone that that is elevated. And so what you want to do is you want to show what life looks like after the transformation, after being part of your world. This is what they get to unlock, this is what they get to be around. You want to really be able to communicate the certainty. So what I mean by that is using really clear steps, having your frameworks all set out, having your testimonials to eliminate doubt so that people can see. All right, she does business with these people also. And I know that they've got great results and so I want to be in that group as well. You also want to speak to safety.

Tina Tower [00:15:17]:
So when I'm talking about safety, what I'm talking about is speaking like I'm not a fan of fear based marketing, but what you will talk to people's fears and offer support with that. So you know, that whatever sort of high end mastermind you're looking at offering that everyone that joins that is going to have like a very similar type of fear because you're going for a very particular type of person. And so with that you can communicate to that fear and go, all right, like I know that this is, this is the fear that we're going to have. And so we're not going to address that with shame, we're going to address it with support because that is how you move people through. The other thing that you need to be conscious of with safety is confidentiality. So often in sports, smaller containers where you are doing high end masterminds, people are getting a lot more vulnerable. I know that. You know, take Impact Mastermind for example, and our Empress Circle days where we have very like a lot smaller groups, people will share a lot more that they would never share in a public setting where they're talking, you know, when people, especially I'm serving business people.

Tina Tower [00:16:30]:
And so you can think it's a lot about business strategy, which it is, we do talk a lot about business strategy. But a lot of the things, when you get to like the edge of where you are, it's personal. A lot of the time people are coming up against a lot of things in their personal lives that they need to be able to overcome or to change direction. That can often be really hard to be able to do. And so getting support from that for a group of trusted friends, of trusted people that you're working with, colleagues in there, although colleagues isn't the right word because it's much more than that. But being able to have this trusted circle that you can be in. And so I spend a lot of time talking to people about confidentiality and have never been backwards in coming forwards and going. If I ever hear anybody blab about anybody in the group, you're gone.

Tina Tower [00:17:25]:
You are never welcome again. Because to me, confidentiality is the most sacred thing. You know, I, as someone who coaches people privately and in high end groups, I am privileged to hear people's deepest, darkest secrets and hold all of that. And that is such a huge amount of trust put in me with the things that people tell me that it's so important to not only hold the confidentiality yourself and don't even like ever share anything without names because, because people will put two and two together. So you've got to be really careful with what you share. But also there's some people in my groups that don't even ever want anyone to know. We'll Do VIP days with people and they'll say, I want this confidential. I don't ever want anyone to know I've even been here.

Tina Tower [00:18:19]:
And so we never share anything, but also to foster amongst the people in the group to respect that confidentiality. And I will say that in the seven years of running high end groups, I have never had anyone break confidentiality so far. So people will do the right thing, but you need to be able to ensure that safety. The other principle is belonging. So making sure that people feel seen, because that's what we all want as humans is we want to feel seen, we want to feel understood, we want to feel validated and part of something really powerful. And this is where I think you go to like the saying, your vibe attracts your tribe. Something that I think when I have joined masterminds in the past, that's what I'm looking for is I'm looking for that sense of belonging. I'm looking for that thing in going, you know, it's quite lonely as an entrepreneur.

Tina Tower [00:19:14]:
There's not many people if you're not an entrepreneur, it's really hard to understand the psychology of entrepreneurship. And so being able to be like, have that sense of belonging in the circle that you're part of. That is why I have joined masterminds in the past and that is why people have joined mine. I mean, the whole reason I created Impact was because I was going to America for all of these masterminds. And I'm like, we've got so many awesome people here in Australia, but everyone that I know that's in Australia goes to America. I'm like, why don't we just do our own? And then I was talking to people and they're like, well, I don't want to, I don't want to facilitate it, I don't want to run it. And so I was like, well, I will, because one, I love running events to, I love curating and facilitating. And so it worked for me to be able to do that because.

Tina Tower [00:19:59]:
But that was the whole reason behind it was that sense of belonging. I wanted that community where we could come together and go, all right, how can we rise together? We also want to foster the principle of urgency. So not fake scarcity, but really being able to communicate why now is the best time. So when you're talking to people going, this is the best time to be able to do that. And this is why, this is why you don't want to wait another year because you'll be in the exact same position as you are now. But if you do want to be ahead, like this will get you there faster kind of thing. Okay, so what to do if you are looking at selling high end, what to do on sales calls, on webinars, on sales pages. Now when you're looking at sales calls, there's a different way to do sales calls, discovery calls.

Tina Tower [00:20:49]:
So when, like before I started doing franchising, I did a whole lot of NLP and neuro linguistic programming. For those who haven't done NLP before, some of the strategies can be manipulative. And so if you know those sort of skills, you have to use them with a lot of integrity because you can manipulate people. And what I find though is a lot of people can see through that now because people are more educated and more aware and more cynical. And so it usually can backfire. And so I don't encourage anyone to do that. What I encourage people to do in sales calls is to get to know people, ask a lot of questions and listen deeply. What you are looking for is a sales call for a high end is not to sell.

Tina Tower [00:21:39]:
Now I know that sounds counterproductive, but what you are looking for is a right fit. So because it's such a small cohort, one thing that I will say is you can destroy the whole thing if you have someone whose energy is off, whose energy doesn't match the group, because especially if you're running live events like for mine, I run live events for both of my masterminds. And if you've got someone in there who's energetically off, it can ruin other people's experiences that are in the group. And so you want to screen for the right fit. Now an example of this backfiring not working was in a mastermind that I was actually a part of. So I wasn't running this one. But I think this came down to the person knowing, not screening me properly. So it is the worst mastermind experience that I have had.

Tina Tower [00:22:32]:
I've talked about it once on the podcast before, like when it happened, never named names, never will name names. But what happened was it was the most expensive mastermind I've ever signed up for. It was US$50,000 for the year. I was at the time. I'd done 2 million in the year before. And I wanted to. I was like, I wonder if I can take this to like a $10 million business. That was what I was playing with.

Tina Tower [00:22:59]:
So I was going for this higher end mastermind because I really wanted to. I knew what got me here wouldn't get me there. I wanted to unlearn a whole lot of things so that I could like unlock that next level of my potential. And so that was the guys that I was looking at it with. I sought out a mentor who had been talking a lot about money, who had been talking a lot about wealth, who had been talking about a more feminine way to grow high end businesses. Because a lot of what I'd seen to that point was very bro markety and I didn't want to be part of that. So I sought her out and knew that she had a mastermind that just had eight people in it that she did every year. And so we did the discovery call.

Tina Tower [00:23:41]:
I asked a bunch of questions, she asked me a bunch of questions and then I signed up for that. Now this is where I think your discovery call is so important. To screen the people to make sure they're a right fit and not just take someone's money. And this is because I went to the first mastermind. So when it started kicked off with a live event. So I went to the live event. It was over in America. I was in Maine and went there.

Tina Tower [00:24:11]:
And the event kicked off with everybody going around the circle and sharing for 20 minutes the most traumatic thing that has happened to them in their lives. Right then after sharing your trauma with. Now granted, out of the eight people, there were two new people to the group. The other six knew each other from the year before. But to me, all strangers. So that's very vulnerable to get very immediately, especially for someone like me who has trust issues. And I like to kind of of, you know, settle in a little bit. So you had to say your most traumatic thing.

Tina Tower [00:24:52]:
So I was like a bit taken aback and was like, I'll go last because this isn't something I'm comfortable with. It got worse after you shared for 20 minutes. You then, so we're in a boardroom. You then laid on the boardroom table. So stepped up onto the table, laid flat on the table while everyone, so the lady who does doterra passed around the essential oils to rub on your hands and then put both hands onto the human while sitting there for 10 minutes and breathing energy into them. And then you were giving them feedback. So giving them like your advice and trauma, of which I'm like one. I'm not a trained psychologist.

Tina Tower [00:25:37]:
I'm not giving anyone advice on this sort of thing. I'm a business strategist, not a psychologist. Secondly, for empaths, like, I'm an empath and I've also had quite a bit of trauma in my early life, I don't have the space to hold that many people's trauma, like just dumping out. And so that was terrible for me. And so at the first break, I went and said to her, I want to run and leave a Tina shaped hole in the wall. Like, everything in me is screaming, get out of this room right now. This is not safe. This is not okay.

Tina Tower [00:26:16]:
This is not what I signed up for. This was not in the brochure. And she was like, just give it time. Don't be so close minded. Open your mind, relax. It will all come together. And so I stayed. And I stayed until the end.

Tina Tower [00:26:30]:
I did the. I shared my thing. I did not share my most traumatic experience, but I shared an experience. Did not have everyone touch me because I didn't want to do that. Then. Then we went into the room where we reenacted our births. So we were all on the floor. And because we were rebirthing, we reenacted coming out of the birth canal and being born into the world anew.

Tina Tower [00:26:53]:
That was the point that I knew, no, we are wrong. And so this was a difficult situation because my energy of being like, oh, hell no, this is not what I want to be part of would have impacted other people there who were, who were totally with it. So, you know when you're in a situation like that, if you're in a bit of a situation that you're like, oh, this shit's crazy. I was looking around, trying to make eyes with people going, like, is there anyone on Team Tina here? Is there anyone who's like resonating with me that I can make eyes with going, oh my God, can you believe we're doing this? Oh my God, like, what? What? No. Everyone else was totally into it, of which I'm going, I would have not ruined that experience for people, but it wouldn't have been easy for them to have my energy in the room where they were all into it. And I was there going, what the actual is happening here? Like, this is. This is not for me. And afterwards I spoke to her and went, one, I'm done, I'm not coming back to anything again.

Tina Tower [00:27:56]:
Two, this was so serious that it needed to be in the brochure. You needed to like be explaining this to me in the beginning. And three, like, I'm out of here. I got myself. I left early. I got myself on a plane. I hightailed at home. I felt trauma dumped.

Tina Tower [00:28:14]:
I felt awful from that. And the difficult part was with that $50,000 investment, like, we argued back and forth and back and forth. And I had to pay 25 of that, like half of it, which I still think is terrible business practices. But I do think it all came down to that discovery call. I think in that instance when she was doing something that was so out of the norm for what was sold as a business group. Yes, it was sold like, like we will get in touch with our intuition and our feminine side. That was not what I was thinking. And so when you're doing something like that, like she should have screened me.

Tina Tower [00:28:55]:
She should have screened me to the point where she said, not where she was like, you know what? You don't have the right energy for what I'm putting out there. What she was doing wasn't necessarily wrong. People might love that. But for me that was so wrong. And so that is my point with discovery calls is you need to be able to screen the person to make sure they're the right fit for your container of what you're facilitating and the other people that you have in there. So don't think that it is just selling. You're not selling to people. In fact, I think it goes wrong when you sell to people, let them share themselves and then offer a place if it's the right fit.

Tina Tower [00:29:34]:
So that's my thing with sales calls on webinars. If you're going to do a webinar about it, you want to be really open about what the experience is like, you want to build the belief, you want to illustrate the outcome and what you're going to go through and also saying the process so that people can resonate with that process or not. Now sales pages are a different thing as well. I've mentioned a couple times at the beginning I actually don't do sales pages for my high end products. The reason being is, do you know what, it's not on purpose. It's really just going, it's 10 people that I want to join in Impact and we have 40 inside Empress Circle. And so they're quite small cohorts. And so when we go through that, I'm like, I'm going to put it on a Google Doc and send it to people so that it's fluid.

Tina Tower [00:30:23]:
So that each time it's easy for me to change and it doesn't need all the bells and whistles. It's kind of like I'm not doing the sell like I am with something that's more high volume. It's more this is the thing and you can take it or you can leave it. It's either going to resonate or it's going to not. So it's a bit of a different vibe there, there, but always you want to be really upfront. You want to state the dream, you want to show the gap and you want to bridge it with your offer. So you want to be still really clear whether you're doing a proper sales page or not. I think you want to be super clear in your communication.

Tina Tower [00:30:58]:
Okay. The next is the mindset of a premium seller. So if you're going to sell a premium product, you want to step more into leadership and detach from needing the sale. So it's not like when you're selling high volume where you need a lot of sales, you need a lot less. Which means that you can be more detached and more from that leadership place in going, this is what I have. I know it's awesome. I'm with it 100% clarity and conviction. And I want to see if you're the right person to come into it.

Tina Tower [00:31:31]:
So you're not needing the sale because you're not needing as many either. So it makes it. This is what I mean by. I actually find it easier to sell high end because you're not going for that same sort of sale. You're really curating people and going like, if this is what you're going for, this is what I've got. So it's that real alignment. You either have an alignment or you have a misalignment. It's really as simple as that.

Tina Tower [00:31:53]:
And if it's aligned, then I have no qualms in going. If I have screened someone and I'm like, oh, you will love this, this is perfect for you. I know you're going to love it. It's not so much a sell, it's like, this is aligned. But then if I've talked to someone and I know that what I've got is not quite what they're looking for, maybe they're looking for something on the edges of that. I'll go. I have no qualms in going, this is what this is. But I think what you're looking for is this and this.

Tina Tower [00:32:18]:
I've got a friend who offers this and this. Would you like me to introduce you? You can take those different things. You also need to know your worth. So high end isn't greedy. Even. Like the price points of these can vary hugely. I've seen some people do masterminds for 5,000. Like I said, the most expensive one that I went in was the 50,000.

Tina Tower [00:32:42]:
I regularly pay 20,000 a year for one. So it's not greedy. What it is is an energy exchange. So I have done Masterminds for like 25k a year that actually give you less tangible information than what a $5,000 product does. But the energy exchange is so much greater in the masterminds that I've been part of, where I'm getting deeper with other people, where I'm forming better connections with the person who's running the mastermind, where I'm going, going deeper into knowing myself. And so that's what you're going for. It's a bit of a different thing to going, you know, you get two masterminds and five templates and this and this and this and this. It's less about the stuff and more about the transformation, more about that proximity.

Tina Tower [00:33:37]:
So the energy of conviction does sell more than features ever will. So you just need to be super clear. Now I believe it's not only selling, you do have to deliver it on the back end. But if you've got that conviction and you've also got the product to back it up, it's a winner. Chicken dinner. You're not selling your time. So sometimes like there was someone I'm working with at the moment and they have a $15,000 12 month mastermind and they do one one hour call a month, that's it. Which I'm like, whoa, that's so much less time than what I put into my masterminds.

Tina Tower [00:34:17]:
I've seen someone else that does an email that is $30,000 for six months where people, they send an automated email every week and people can email back questions and they get them answered by the guy. That's it. I know like in mine, my Empress circle mastermind gets a whole lot more time than what my impact mastermind gets. But it's a different sort of experience. One is teaching and one is facilitating. And so you just need to know, know what the end result is, what that value exchange is, what that energy exchange is, and making sure that that's a win win for both. So you charge for the value, not the volume. And some transformations are worth high prices because they change everything for someone.

Tina Tower [00:35:10]:
And that is what we're going for when it comes to a high end product is how can we get the most enriched transformation possible for people. So what I want to tell you is if your program really does change lives, it deserves to be priced like it does. And when you're going to sell that, focus on selling less, but selling to a higher quality customer that you know is just picking up everything that you're putting down because then it will flow so beautifully and it will work so well. Now, I have a couple of different resources for you to go with this episode. One is it's in the show notes, but you can also DM me on Instagram or Facebook, the Word menu where I have a list of all the menu items to make up a high end membership or Mastermind. So that is so you can kind of look through and go, all right, when you're architecting your own membership or Mastermind, what bits do you want to put in? Do you want to put in one on ones? Do you want to put in live events? Do you want to put in facilitated calls? Do you want to put in resources like you can pick and choose from this menu how you want to make yours up. So I've got all of the different options there. Do not make a membership or a Mastermind with all of them.

Tina Tower [00:36:28]:
It would be way too bloated and too overwhelming. So you want to really think about what things did your ideal client need that they're going to value, that are going to be sustainable for you to deliver, that are going to fit within the price point that you want to be able to do and that are going to bring the greatest results. So you're looking for the most leverage possible things. And the other is if you would like to apply for one of my masterminds in 2026, you can go to the show notes herempirebuilder.com mastermind or you can just DM me the word Mastermind on Instagram or Facebook and then we can have a chat on there and figure out which product would be right for you. And if it is right for you, I can give you that. And if not, I can probably direct you into the right direction for what you're looking for for your growth in 2026. But whatever it is, I think a good idea for you is to look at your office suite and see if a high end model fits into that. Because it's something that I know is so incredibly enjoyable and rewarding to be able to run.

Tina Tower [00:37:44]:
And that's a wrap. That's a wrap.