Tina Tower [00:00:00]:
Hello, Hello. The fabulous Ashley Smith is joining us here on her Empire Builder show today. For me, this is a bit of a full circle moment for us, Ash, because Ashley and I went to uni together when we were just teenagers at Sydney Uni. We studied primary school teaching together and then obviously have gone on different paths. But I mean, I think still us as course creators. Like, we're still teachers every day for sure. Yeah, yeah. Welcome, welcome, Ash.

 

Main Episode

Ashley Smith [00:00:38]:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here. We've come all the way, all the way back around together, which is amazing.

Tina Tower [00:00:44]:
I know, it's so good, isn't it? Like, do you think? I know I didn't at the start, but did you have like even the tiniest inkling when you were at uni that you wouldn't be a teacher forever?

Ashley Smith [00:00:56]:
No, I thought I would be until I became a teacher, like out.

Tina Tower [00:01:02]:
For me, it only took the nine week prank. I was like, nine weeks? I'm like, well, this is not for me.

Ashley Smith [00:01:08]:
And I remember thinking, so Tina and I used to carpool into uni together. So there was four of us and we'd always carpool. And Tina had the fanciest car, so she would do most of the driving.

Tina Tower [00:01:17]:
And I love the way you're saying like Tina had the fanciest car like I had. It was in those days because we were very like, my kids are driving now and they actually have decent cars like all their friends. It's not like when we drove and people were driving barely road legal bomb cars. And mine was not that. Mine was like a $4,000 old Holden Barina. So when you say like Tina had the. I don't want people thinking like, I was flashy. No, it just didn't have like bits of the car falling off.

Ashley Smith [00:01:48]:
We were driving in a BMW to unique. Definitely not. But yeah, it did it like it had upholstery with no holes in. Smelled nice.

Tina Tower [00:02:00]:
It was a good car. Yeah, I did love that car.

Ashley Smith [00:02:01]:
Dixie, she names their cars.

Tina Tower [00:02:05]:
Yeah, yeah. But yes, we would drive there.

Ashley Smith [00:02:07]:
We would drive there. And I remember that you said that you weren't going to go into teaching. Like when we were close to the end, I thought, gosh, it's crazy. Like, I can't wait to get out into the classroom. But. And I really did enjoy my time as a teacher. Don't get me wrong at all. But once I got into leadership, that's something that I really wanted to do.

Ashley Smith [00:02:24]:
And I was like, okay, great, now I can make a real change. In this space. And I just realized that when you're in a really big system, you can't really make. You can't make changes to somebody higher telling you what to do.

Tina Tower [00:02:37]:
And someone higher, someone higher.

Ashley Smith [00:02:40]:
And I was like, no, I want to be that higher one. So. And that's where we've kind of ended up. We've ended up being sort of thought leaders in our industry and being able to make change in areas that we think are really important, which is amazing.

Tina Tower [00:02:54]:
Was there something in particular that was like the nudge for you in going, you know what? I don't want to be classroom teaching. Let's look at other opportunities. Did you have the idea to do what you're doing now before you left teaching, or did you leave teaching and then go, okay, now what?

Ashley Smith [00:03:11]:
Before I left teaching. So it was kind of an accident. It was a happy accident how it all happened. So I've got a business partner, her name is Alicia, she lives over in Perth and I'm in Sydney. But we actually met when we were teaching in an international school in Dubai and I came home, she ended up coming back and living in Sydney. She knew one person in Sydney besides her boyfriend and that was me. And I was pregnant with my first child. She also had a back injury, so she couldn't really be doing a lot of casual teaching.

Ashley Smith [00:03:38]:
So she decided she was going to start drawing on her iPad. And she said, you know, you can draw pictures on your iPad and sell it online. And I'm thinking, what are you even talking about? Anyway, she started doing this and then she sort of approached me and said, would you consider taking some of this clipart and make resources out of it for teachers? And I, by that point I'd had my first baby and I was kind of just living mum life and I thought, oh, I'll have a little look at it and have a play around. And I fell in love with it because I love creating, I love making things. I've always loved doing that for the kids in my class, which was a detriment in some ways because I'd always be working, always be creating things all night, all weekend, so on and so forth. So it started out as a hobby and a happy accident. And then it grew into something that was more like a business. So I did go back to school part time after my first, my second and my second baby.

Ashley Smith [00:04:33]:
And then when I fell pregnant with my third, I took a bit longer maternity leave and then I didn't go back.

Tina Tower [00:04:39]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard to go Back after that, you're like, especially once you've got a taste of the freedom. So what point. Was there a point or did it kind of happen slowly that you kind of. You and Alicia both went, I don't think this is a hobby anymore. Like, let's put our. Like, I find a lot of business women that I talk to. There's.

Tina Tower [00:04:58]:
There's a point where you're like, oh, hang on. Like, we're. We're adulting here. Like, let's put our big girl pants on. And we've got, like, a serious business.

Ashley Smith [00:05:06]:
Yeah. It's kind of funny because it just kind of plotted along and started happening. And then we realized that we were actually making good money.

Tina Tower [00:05:13]:
Yeah.

Ashley Smith [00:05:14]:
Better than me in the classroom a couple of days a week. And then. And it took all the way to that for us to realize, like, oh, wow, this is like an actual business, and we need to, like, feed this and give it the attention and love that it needs.

Tina Tower [00:05:28]:
I mean, I still think now sometimes I talk to you, and you're like, you don't quite grasp the, like, the awesomeness that you have created. You're like, you know, it's no big deal. I'm like, what you've created is insanely awesome.

Ashley Smith [00:05:41]:
Oh, thank you. We have. We have a OBM that works with us. And she often will say, you guys have to stop thinking that you are teachers. You are business owners. Right?

Tina Tower [00:05:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. It is a really different mentality, and it's something that, you know, my previous business was tutoring centers, and that was one of the biggest challenges is a teacher mentality is a very particular way of thinking, and you do need to think outside of that. Yeah. So what has been the evolution of Rainbow Sky?

Ashley Smith [00:06:11]:
We have dabbled in so many things. I feel like we've done the whole box and dice when it comes to an online business. So primarily our business is small offers and we do high volume. So we will sell resources online on a platform called Teachers Pay Teachers, and they'll be worth a couple of dollars, sort of through three to five dollars, and we sell lots of them. But then we wanted to go into the idea of a course. So we started with a course for new teachers, and we ended up turning that into a membership. And we also have mini courses too. So we've kind of tried it all.

Ashley Smith [00:06:44]:
We've actually ended up closing down our membership and turning it back into a course for teachers to do. But it's been. It's been a really fun ride because we've been able to Explore new things. And every time we start and try something new, you're learning new tools, new ways of doing things, new strategies.

Tina Tower [00:07:00]:
So ye, now I know people don't normally like to talk about the ones that they tried and then it didn't work so they wound it back. But it is the most helpful thing to other people to hear. So can you expand a little bit on the. The way that was formatted as the course to begin with and then why you went into the membership and then why you decided like the exact thing of going, hang on, I liked it better as a course. I think it worked better as a course and why you wound that back.

Ashley Smith [00:07:25]:
Yeah, I love talking about this too because I think we often hear things in the business world like oh, you should do this, like this is where it's at. And memberships. When we started our membership we went through the G McLaren like challenge and then we bought his course that he had, which I think is interesting that it's course non membership but that's a side. So we thought, oh, this is like this is the way forward. And we realized that it wasn't for what we were giving and what our audience were receiving. So it started off as a course with modules and it walks people through basically how to. We basically called it like teaching 101. What university didn't teach you about real life in the classroom? Because you do learn a lot at university and it's not really the reality.

Ashley Smith [00:08:13]:
Like what do you do if a parent comes in and they're cranky? Or what do you do if you get an email and you've got to reply to that straight away, but you've got a class of 30 kids in front of you, like all of those practical things that teachers have to deal with. So we nutted out this course. It actually started off, it's so funny, we actually started off with an ebook that we were selling online on teachers pay teachers. And it was so popular, which is what gave us the idea to make it into a course in the first place. So we kind of thickened that out and made it into a course and teachers loved it in saying that we did launch it in 2020. So it was the very end of everybody bought everything and then led into 2021. So then teachers were having really. Because they weren't going out and doing their practice like they normally would.

Ashley Smith [00:09:02]:
They weren't getting the support that they felt like they needed. There was lots of distance learning and things happening. Like it was a very tough time for teachers. So I think that we launched at a really good time as well. I think that had a little bit to play with it. But then Alicia and I were talking and Alicia really felt that we weren't giving them the ongoing support that they needed. Like, here's a course. We did some live Q&As, but then, like, then what.

Ashley Smith [00:09:26]:
What about the questions that they have throughout the year of their teaching? So that's why we decided to turn it into a membership. And if you think about it in that way, it actually is quite a clever idea. What we found was that we had to give them monthly deliverables. The course was included in it, but then they weren't really using the course. So we kind of set it up that we would have a monthly theme that had something to do with the course. So we would usher people there, say, watch that masterclass, and then we'd give them other deliverables. But we were overwhelming them because new teachers are completely overwhelmed and what they don't need is more staff and more commitments. So how do you deliver a membership without staff and commitments? It's like, it's a really, really tricky one, besides going in the classroom and holding their hand for them.

Ashley Smith [00:10:12]:
So we ended up wrapping it up and it was a tough process because we wanted to stay really true to our integrity in wrapping it up, but we also didn't want it to go away because we still get messages and things on Instagram from people saying, like, I'm going to be a teacher in a couple of years. I know that you've got this membership or this course. So we repackaged it as a course. It doesn't sell very well now, but it was no skin off our noses to repackage it as a course. All the people that were in the membership, we wrapped them up and we gave them lots of love and lots of extra bonuses. And then now some. Since wrapping up the membership and saying goodbye to that, our business has actually increased. We're earning more because they're putting more time into things that actually making us revenue.

Tina Tower [00:11:02]:
This is the thing I was talking to someone about the other day and going, you know, you can get so attached to an offer that you've put so much effort into and so much energy into, and you're like, I can't just kill it. Like, I've put so much into this.

Ashley Smith [00:11:14]:
But.

Tina Tower [00:11:15]:
But when you can let something go that's not like, working as well as what you want it to, you've then got all this energy to put into the things that are going to Work, which is so much better. So what does the ecosystem look like now?

Ashley Smith [00:11:29]:
So now the main part of our business are the small office with the high volume. That's the number one. And that's what we focus all of our social media marketing on, our emails and then we have a series of other small. We call them mini courses because you could do them over a weekend and they're, they're not a lot, they're not costly like in the business world. So our, our mini courses are $37 US dollars. And we actually found, this is just a complete side note, that pricing things in US Dollars sells better than pricing them in aud, which is just weird.

Tina Tower [00:12:04]:
What's the percentage of Australian customers?

Ashley Smith [00:12:08]:
Well, is it less than 50%? Okay, so there is more people from overseas.

Tina Tower [00:12:15]:
Yeah. So it's worth doing US Dollars.

Ashley Smith [00:12:16]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tina Tower [00:12:18]:
And then it does look cheaper as well to an Australian audience often. But it depends on, like, I know our Australian audience gets real ticked off if they have to pay for things in us, so we have both of those options there. So that people can either sign up in US or they can sign up in Australian. But if you've got less than 50%, it makes total sense to just do US dollars.

Ashley Smith [00:12:39]:
Yeah, well, it was actually quite funny when we had it in aud, we'd actually get emails from people generally in the US saying you've undercharged.

Tina Tower [00:12:47]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or what is AUD like? People like, what is this? Different currency.

Ashley Smith [00:12:51]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tina Tower [00:12:54]:
And so with that, because I know that it's a really different game to play, the, the high volume, low cost, you've got to do like a lot of transactions in the day. How. What does your marketing look like to keep those funnels like, to keep that sustainability? All paid advertising. Are you doing organic? Like, what does that look like to get enough of that inflow?

Ashley Smith [00:13:14]:
It's actually very interesting. We've got a very, very lean business, which is amazing. We do Facebook ads and we're dabbling more and more with Facebook ads, but we, we didn't at the beginning, so that's only a newish sort of thing. We've always had one sort of running for the last couple of years, but now we're sort of amping it up.

Tina Tower [00:13:32]:
Are you doing your own ads or are you outsourcing those?

Ashley Smith [00:13:35]:
We are doing our own. We've got a helper now. Stacy Hughes has come on board to help us, but we've always been doing them ourselves, which is, which is a hard thing because, you know, there's so much to think about with ads and rules and all of the things.

Tina Tower [00:13:49]:
It just changes all the time. All the time.

Ashley Smith [00:13:51]:
Yes. I wish it did. Things didn't change as much. It'd be nice if they just stayed the same. So you got used to it.

Tina Tower [00:13:56]:
Yeah, Well, I read they're just bringing out like a whole AI thing so soon. It's just going to do most of it for you inside.

Ashley Smith [00:14:03]:
All of this learning.

Tina Tower [00:14:05]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll go out the window and we'll have to learn it all again.

Ashley Smith [00:14:09]:
Yeah.

Tina Tower [00:14:10]:
So Facebook ads now, but what did you used to get that base when you kind of were. Were unknown?

Ashley Smith [00:14:15]:
Our organic social media, that's really where it has really drawn from. So we Instagram is our main avenue. We have, we had Facebook too, which we would post on manually, but then we just sort of decided to shifting it over and then we've got TikTok as well. So we've got the three social media channels. And Pinterest has also been a really big one for us as well.

Tina Tower [00:14:38]:
For you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm always, I forget about Pinterest and sometimes people. I'll get notifications that people have repinned things and I'm like, what even is that? Like it's. Yeah, but for you, Pinterest and TikTok is massive for teachers.

Ashley Smith [00:14:54]:
Yeah, it's huge. So we, we still have pins. We got someone who's running it for us there, but we still have pins that go up new pins every single week out to our podcast, our resources, our blog.

Tina Tower [00:15:06]:
Yeah, nice. And in terms of community, now that you don't have the membership but you're just doing all the low cost courses, I know that you have built a beautiful community in that reputation. So with the absence of membership, what sort of things are you doing to like grow that community sort of vibe?

Ashley Smith [00:15:24]:
We, our real focus is growing the community on our main platform which is Instagram. And it's kind of like a lot of teachers say it's, it's weird going back when we first started, we started this Instagram and I remember saying to my husband, there's like teachers on there that have 8,000 followers. Like I could not get over why there would be. So why there would be teachers with so many followers and it took us forever to get to a thousand and then we ended up building up from there. But a lot of the teachers on there say it's like a, a virtual staff room where in. If you're a teacher you will understand that you'll Go into as a teaching staff room and there's always sort of like a Debbie down or a Sally Sad Face sitting there, bringing everyone else down. And I. Social media, on our side of social media, we don't really have that.

Ashley Smith [00:16:11]:
There have been moments, but we're, we're really, really lucky with that community and people really support each other. So we've got lots of messages in our DMs, people email us, people write back to each other's comments and it's actually a really beautiful.

Tina Tower [00:16:29]:
Yeah, I remember when, like when I started taking online courses seriously and I went to the Kajabi conference in 2019 or 2018, one of those, and saw Casey Morris speak, who was. I think she started on teachers. Pay teachers.

Ashley Smith [00:16:44]:
Yes, she did also.

Tina Tower [00:16:46]:
And she was like making millions a year out of really low cost, like these $79 resources. And I was like, wait, what? Yeah, and she had done it through building community with teachers that were looking for other positive teachers in the world.

Ashley Smith [00:17:03]:
Yeah. She's actually a really good example because she's. She's like a famous teacher.

Tina Tower [00:17:09]:
Yeah, yeah, that's it.

Ashley Smith [00:17:10]:
Yeah. That you would never think that that would exist. I went when I first started this.

Tina Tower [00:17:14]:
Business and it became an influencer in every industry.

Ashley Smith [00:17:17]:
There's an influencer everywhere. That is so true. And she's gone on to do amazing things with her business.

Tina Tower [00:17:24]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So how do you now. Because I know that, you know, you have a very different business to me, whereas I run high touch, so it can be a lot of connection. So how do you actually, like, where is your boundaries? When are paying the small amount for how much contact they can have with you? And how do you dip into these conversations ever? Or do you respond to the comments or like, how do you keep there for people but also have your boundaries?

Ashley Smith [00:17:55]:
That is a really, really good question because be hard. We sell a low ticket, but our audience expect a lot because they're teachers. Right. So any mistake, any like wrong word, they're like, oh no, we' calling you out on that. That's not the right thing to do. So as far as like messages and things go, because there's two of us, it's really been easy to split things down the middle. So I run our social media and I do make sure that I'm in our DMs every single day and I reply back to those messages. It's been so much easier since we've been able to voice note people too, because especially new teachers that come in and they ask questions.

Ashley Smith [00:18:37]:
I'M able to give them a little voice note. And sometimes people do come in and say, I've got this problem, like, can you help me? And we do want to serve in that way. Sometimes we'll have people asking if they can have resources and things adjusted. And generally we think, well, if it would serve the greater community. Like if we've heard about this a couple of times before, or we think that that would be helpful for others, we will do it other. Or if we got time other times if we don't, then we'll say no, which isn't amazing. People don't love that. But one of the things that teachers really want is to make everything editable.

Ashley Smith [00:19:12]:
So we'll have a resource, a game that we've thought of, created, made, really beautiful. And then they say, oh, can we edit this? Which requires.

Tina Tower [00:19:20]:
No, don't ruin my beauty.

Ashley Smith [00:19:23]:
The prettiness is going to go as soon as you edit it because you can't have the fonts and things for copyright. So some of our most popular resources, one of our most popular ones are UNO games, creating maths games just using UNO cards. And we've created games for kindergarten all the way through to year six. And it's amazing. They can do so many different things with these unocards. So we've created those and made them editable so people in other countries can edit it and translate it into their own language. And that has been really popular and that's something that people are really appreciative of. So we will help our customers where we can.

Ashley Smith [00:19:58]:
But there does have to be a line drawn. Yeah. And I've probably learned it the hard way over the years.

Tina Tower [00:20:03]:
I know. Yeah. Don't we all? Yes. So what are you seeing working the most on social media at the moment? And how have you seen it change over the last couple of years? Because I know a lot's changed over the last couple of years.

Ashley Smith [00:20:15]:
Oh my gosh, so much has changed. I found that carousels have been working so well. Yeah. And I think one of the reasons why, and I hope this is still the case and it doesn't go away, but when you post a carousel, it'll show people, your audience the first slide and then it will redeliver to them with your second slide. So doing two cooks to begin with and then going into your content, it'll just get it so many more views. So we found carousels have been a really great way to really reach our audience, but also not discarding our reels. And one of the things that I love to do is just repurposing over and over again. And if you.

Ashley Smith [00:20:55]:
If you've got a product out there, like you serving a product, then it's. I would not stop at just delivering that reel once I saved all onto our computer. And then teaching is very easy because it goes in a cycle. So we work in seasons all the way around the year, and then everything comes back around again. Like, book week's going to come next year, back to school, so on and so forth. So we can just reuse the same things and we can go back and have a look. Okay, that one didn't go very well. We'll either give it another go with a different caption, or if it went really well, we'll just steal our own caption and repost it.

Ashley Smith [00:21:28]:
So reposting, I think, is one of my superpowers when it comes to social media and people don't notice and they need to see things over and over again. Anyway.

Tina Tower [00:21:36]:
Totally. Yeah. And you haven't mentioned your podcast either, and.

Ashley Smith [00:21:40]:
Oh, my gosh, yes, we've got a podcast.

Tina Tower [00:21:43]:
Yeah. Because I know that would be one of your. Like that and social media would be your main feeders right into the business.

Ashley Smith [00:21:49]:
Yes, definitely. So our podcast, we've been. We're actually just about to next week celebrate 100 episodes. Episodes.

Tina Tower [00:21:54]:
Yay. Congratulations.

Ashley Smith [00:21:56]:
And just in time for my mic to break. I was like, obviously, 100 episodes is all it could handle.

Tina Tower [00:22:02]:
Yes, yes. Yep.

Ashley Smith [00:22:03]:
I was like, yeah, so we've got that. And I think that that's been a really great way for everyone to get to know us a little bit more and how we kind of vibe together, because Alicia and I are very, very different humans. Like, it's. We actually find it quite amazing that we connected and are such good friends because we are so different so often.

Tina Tower [00:22:22]:
That works, though.

Ashley Smith [00:22:24]:
Well, I think it's been amazing because the parts of her that I want to be more like has rubbed off and vice versa. And we bring different things to the table, and you don't want to bring the same thing as each other. Like, it's always agreeable when you're the same as somebody, but that doesn't necessarily make the best business.

Tina Tower [00:22:42]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And so with your podcast, because, again, you're just like, yeah, we. We have a podcast. You've got one of the top podcasts. How many downloads do you get, Ash?

Ashley Smith [00:22:52]:
A weekly? Yeah, we get about between 6 and 7,000 a week. Right.

Tina Tower [00:22:58]:
For the people listening, they're just like, wait, What? Yes, between 6 and 7,000. The average podcast gets 172 a week.

Ashley Smith [00:23:07]:
I did not know that.

Tina Tower [00:23:09]:
Yes. And so every time you talk about your podcast and your numbers, I'm like, whoa, Go Ash. Like, that's amazing. Is there, like, do you put it down to, there's so many teachers in the world. Do you put it down to your sparkly personality? Like, what do you think has been the secret to getting your podcast so high up in the charts?

Ashley Smith [00:23:33]:
I think the honest truth is that we've got. We do have a large social media following now. So we already started out with a large base, and I think that that does help when you've already signing out with a large base and people are like, oh, hang on a second, I'd like to explore that. Or I'd like to listen to that. Especially the teachers that are experienced and they weren't able to join our membership because they weren't new teachers and they still wanted that connection point. So originally the podcast we had still. We're still running the membership and we made it. It was called Rainbow Skies for new Teachers, but we rebranded it.

Ashley Smith [00:24:05]:
When we decided to get rid of the membership, we took out the new. So it's just called Rainbow Skies for Teachers. And we get lots of emails and messages from teachers saying that they enjoy it, even if they've been teaching for a really long time. And I think it goes back to that point where they. I think teachers are sick of hearing the negativity. It can be a really hard job. It's a really. It's a hard job.

Ashley Smith [00:24:26]:
It's great, but it's hard. And sometimes it's nice just to listen to somebody who's passionate about it and listen to the.

Tina Tower [00:24:31]:
Good at that. Re. Energization.

Ashley Smith [00:24:33]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's probably has really helped it too.

Tina Tower [00:24:37]:
You're always good for that. Yeah. So for you, like, what mindset shifts have you had to take going from teacher to business owner?

Ashley Smith [00:24:46]:
Oh, my gosh, so many. Money Mindset major.

Tina Tower [00:24:49]:
Because in terms of worrying, like, because I know teaching by nature is one of the most stable forms of employment. So do you mean like that, like the instability of business?

Ashley Smith [00:25:00]:
The instability, but also like the worth. What am I worth? Because teachers, if you looked at their hourly rate, it would be very low.

Tina Tower [00:25:09]:
Yeah, yeah.

Ashley Smith [00:25:10]:
Depending on how many hours you work. Right. So there are teachers that go in and work, you know, nine to three and then that's it. But if you're not that teacher, if you're the teacher that's working overtime and doing all the extra Things and making all the things, then you are working a lot of hours. So I think that that has really helped us. That work ethic has really helped us. But with our money mindset, what. What are we worth? What's our time worth? And teaching our audience that our time is worth something because it doesn't happen very much anymore.

Ashley Smith [00:25:39]:
But it used to a lot where teachers would say, but this should be free. Like, you should be giving this to us for free.

Tina Tower [00:25:46]:
Why?

Ashley Smith [00:25:48]:
Because teachers feel like they deserve that. Like, if you've made that, why shouldn't you just share it?

Tina Tower [00:25:54]:
Yeah, it does have a big share economy, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That expectation.

Ashley Smith [00:26:00]:
So I think that that has. That's been like, a really big one for me. But also just the mindset of more is not better, has been a big one. Another thing that, like, we've bought from teaching is that you just do more.

Tina Tower [00:26:14]:
And more and more and more and more.

Ashley Smith [00:26:16]:
And in business, that's how we started out and that's how we got successful. We just made more and more and more resources. Right. So we've got hundreds of them now, and then they sell on autopilot. But we've learned just to pull back. In this last year, we've. We've really started to focus on funnels and reorganizing everything in the back end of the business, which is why Hebb has been so good in reorganizing and just keeping everything in line with systems and SOPs things that, like, I never even knew existed before.

Tina Tower [00:26:47]:
You know, the profitability is in the boring parts.

Ashley Smith [00:26:50]:
Yes. And I always have Tina in my background going, you know, a boring business is a profitable. So every time when I'm doing those boring tasks, I just remember that. And I also remember I can go to the toilet whenever I want because I'm not in the classroom.

Tina Tower [00:27:07]:
I mean, that's a positive. Yes, that is a massive positive. So what are some of the biggest challenges that you've come through? Because you've been doing how long. How many years have you been going now?

Ashley Smith [00:27:21]:
Close to nine years.

Tina Tower [00:27:22]:
Yeah. So you would have come up against some big challenges along the way. What have been some of the big pivotal ones, and how have you moved through them?

Ashley Smith [00:27:32]:
Probably the biggest challenge is us both having our families, because we started and I was at home with my little ones, and Alicia was still in the classroom teaching, and then she had a family. So it wasn't just me juggling then, it was her juggling the family and family life. That was tricky for a little while there. And I think that we've just learned to grow and trust each other and make sure that, you know, family comes first.

Tina Tower [00:28:00]:
Yeah.

Ashley Smith [00:28:00]:
And our business comes second. And I know lots of people say, you know, your business is your baby, but for us, our babies are our babies. Yes. Yeah. We could be in the classroom with other people's kids, but we're not. We get to stay at home with our own kids. And for us, it's really, really important that we are able to be present with them, go to all of their school bits and pieces, let them have days off without stressing out when they're sick. So we've really grown together in that way.

Ashley Smith [00:28:30]:
And as far as other challenges go, we've been really lucky in that we've had a few little techie challenges that we've had to experience along the way. We had a terrible web developer, and it's taken us years to get our website back up and running, but we've got it back up and running. And I think that in teaching, we talk about a growth mindset so much, and I think that business is all about having a growth mindset, too. If you're not there, you're just not there yet. And you can slowly get there. And it might be frustrating at times, but that's part of the learning process.

Tina Tower [00:29:03]:
There's the clip, the promo clip for the podcast. Get it, Ash. Like, yes, louder for the back. I love that. So you brought up the kids, and I totally agree. I know that so many people go into business because they want freedom and flexibility, but they end up, I don't know, we get. We forget that we can still take that. Like, it's the allure of.

Tina Tower [00:29:24]:
Because nobody, nobody is ever telling you there's no school bell going at the end of the day. Like, there's no knockoff time. And so it can be really tempting to just do that more and more and more. So I love that you've kept that as, like, your North Star focus. But you have three little people. How do you, like, do you have practical tips you can share with people on how you balance that creative energy and the business strategy and the family life? Like, do you time block these things or do you just see how the days unfold? How does it work for you?

Ashley Smith [00:29:55]:
It has gotten easier as my kids have gotten older. So they're all in primary school now. This is the first year where the three are at school. So we had a process where we were at home in Covid and they were babies. And that was so, so hard because my husband still went to work. But what I used to do when they were little is I used to time block their nap time. So I would make sure I set my whole day up around it. So we'd make sure that we went out in the morning so everyone was tired.

Ashley Smith [00:30:22]:
I took plenty of snacks that everyone was full. And then we would come back and we'd make sure that everyone had that quiet time and they were really good. Generally they would. And I would always have in my mind what I was going to sit down and smash out at that time. And then usually after they went to bed, I would get back into a little bit of work because that was enjoyable for me. I just wanted to get out my ideas and be creative. And back then we were doing lots of creative parts of the business. We were making lots and lots of resources.

Ashley Smith [00:30:50]:
So it wasn't like taxing in that we were doing like the books and writing long emails and things. It was more creative work. But then as they've gotten older, I've tried to teach them that I have a job, even though it doesn't look like it, and it certainly doesn't look like it from the outside world and it doesn't look like it to my family and other people that are around. But I've tried to the amount sometimes.

Tina Tower [00:31:13]:
I have extended families say to me, like, what do you actually do? Like what do you do all day? It's hard to explain.

Ashley Smith [00:31:21]:
Yeah, it is hard to explain. But I like, I know what you do because.

Tina Tower [00:31:25]:
Yeah, we know.

Ashley Smith [00:31:26]:
But I suppose that maybe you need to invite them in.

Tina Tower [00:31:29]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so conceptual to other people. If you're not in the industry that, that there are plenty of people selling and buying ideas.

Ashley Smith [00:31:38]:
Yes. Yeah, that is so true. When we first started success, I said to me, you'll never make any money out of that. So I'm always saying to him, dad, have a look at this.

Tina Tower [00:31:48]:
Suck it, dad.

Ashley Smith [00:31:52]:
So back to the kids. I really try and keep my work week, my work week where I can. It does bleed out every now and then. And it depends on what's happening in the week. Like if we've got extra interruptions and things that have happened. Like my little, one of my little ones sprained her leg this week, so she's been off two days. But I only work three days a week. So I work Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday in the school hours and then I go and pick them up.

Ashley Smith [00:32:19]:
And all I generally have to do in the afternoons after I pick them up is post social. Social media that I may have Already got the idea or got it all ready to go. So they're very used to sort of five o' clock mum's got to post something on social media. They're very used to, like, being quiet if I'm making a story. But we, we try and work together and they understand that I've got to do this for my work and I enjoy it and that's okay, that's a good thing. But I also try and make sure that I'm not, you know, working at the computer when they're around.

Tina Tower [00:32:51]:
I mean, what an incredible balance that you can make. More than you can as a teacher. Working three days a week in school hours. Like, that's just dreamy McDreamy.

Ashley Smith [00:33:00]:
Yeah, that is. It's pretty good.

Tina Tower [00:33:02]:
Yeah, it's so good. And I can say, like, now that my kids are, oh, my God, Kai's nearly 18, like, just getting old. They have, like, they've never known me not to have a business. And we've always done it that way in terms of, like, we're a team together and we're going to do this, this thing next. And like, they've always come along. We used to, we don't anymore because their lives are too busy. But we used to always have Sunday family meetings where we talk about the week ahead and what the commitments were and we'd look at the bank account, how much money we've got and what were the expenses and all of these different things. And they always felt very part of it, which I think is so helpful, especially being a mum in business, because they, they never begrudged me.

Tina Tower [00:33:41]:
Like, people would ask me all the time, do you feel guilty about work? I'm like, my kids never guilted me and I never felt like that because we were, we were just kind of doing it together.

Ashley Smith [00:33:51]:
Yeah. And I think the, the other option is that you're gone. Yeah. Out at work, and that's fine. Like, my husband's out at work, but my kids see that he works six days a week. So they see that they're like, dad's not around as much. Yeah, you are. So when I ask them, I often will use their hands and things for photos because their little hands are so cute and it's perfect for our resources.

Ashley Smith [00:34:13]:
They're really happy to help.

Tina Tower [00:34:15]:
Yeah. That's so cute. That's so cute. So you and Alicia have been part of her empire builder for over a year now. What has been the biggest things that you have learned?

Ashley Smith [00:34:26]:
Oh, we, there's been so many things, but I, I said to you not long ago, that AI has been the. Has been a weight of gold in her empire build. I think you actually only introduced it after we joined, after a couple of months.

Tina Tower [00:34:39]:
Yeah, I think it was about October, November 24th that we started the monthly AI sessions.

Ashley Smith [00:34:46]:
Yeah. And they are amazing. Like, I come to all the sessions because I think it's great just to keep your mind open and even if you're not ready to learn something, you're. It keeps it in the back of your mind for when you are ready and you remember. I should go back to that or remember this little bit of nugget here. But the AI has been incredible because it's such a big part of our lives and using it efficiently can really help you. And as I just said, I only work three days a week and Alicia's the same. She only works.

Ashley Smith [00:35:13]:
We try and keep it to under sort of 15 to 20 hours. And so AI has really helped us be able to produce more, better. We're tired mums. You know, I wish that I had it when I was really tired with kids that weren't sleeping through the night. Because, you know when you're like, I want to say this, but just the words aren't coming out.

Tina Tower [00:35:31]:
But you imagine if you had AI capabilities, but the knowledge that we have in our 40s and the energy we had when we were 20 and the naivety we had then, like, is there a way to manufacture? Like, that's just amazing.

Ashley Smith [00:35:44]:
Probably we'll find a way, I'm sure.

Tina Tower [00:35:46]:
Find a way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that all the time. Yeah.

Ashley Smith [00:35:52]:
Yeah. So the AI has been amazing, but everything else in the inherit has been so good too. I, like everyone always says you, you buy a membership, you know, for all of the information, but you stay for the community. And I never really believed that is the honest. I've been in other communities before, I haven't stayed. But your community is different. Yeah, it is. It's actually amazing.

Ashley Smith [00:36:17]:
I was out at coffee with another member on Monday, then we're doing something together on Saturday, and then I'm meeting another member next week. So all these things going on that.

Tina Tower [00:36:29]:
I don't know about.

Ashley Smith [00:36:31]:
I know I don't want to say their names on the podcast just in case, I'll tell you after. But it's been amazing because everyone is there to support each other and I think that you have drawn in a certain sort of person that is really supportive and willing to listen and willing to help each other and lift each other up. And just recently we had the, the retreat and everyone was there thinking like, how could I support you? Oh, have you tried this? This could really work for you. Have you heard of this person I think you'd love, love to connect with that person and I've really loved that.

Tina Tower [00:37:10]:
Yeah, same. Yeah, I only just like an hour before we got on this interview, signed to the contract for Fiji next year. I'm very excited. I'm like, yes, we got it, we got it. We're going to Fiji which is so good. So that will be fun. We can get our not aloha on. That's Hawaii Tina, our lomi lomi.

Ashley Smith [00:37:31]:
We'll get that.

Tina Tower [00:37:32]:
Our bulla. Yeah, that's what we'll get on. Ash, you're incredible. You should be so proud of what you have created. I know from us when we were 18 at uni together, sitting there all bright eyed and bushy tailed. I'm proud of us, of what we've done with our knowledge and our lives. Like it's good.

Ashley Smith [00:37:52]:
It's good.

Tina Tower [00:37:52]:
Go us.

Ashley Smith [00:37:53]:
Yeah, go us. I know it's amazing and I love women working together to lift women up. It's incredible.

Tina Tower [00:38:00]:
And if anyone's listening and want to join us inside her empire builder, we're on launch week so go to her empire builder.com and you can join Ash and me and all of the fabulous humans that we have inside. We've linked to all of Ash's stuff in the show notes. I think it's worth checking out her social media and her podcast even if you're not a teacher because it is phenomenal and will give you really great marketing ideas in there too because you underplay your brilliance a lot, Ash. But we'll work on that. Thanks, Ashley.