Tina Tower [00:00:00]:
Welcome. Welcome, everybody, to a very special episode of the Her Empire Builder Show. Today. We are over 300 episodes in, and as we have gotten to this stage, there is one special guest that I have never had on the podcast, and that is my husband, Matt. Welcome, Matt.

 

Main Episode

Mat Tower [00:00:18]:
Hi.

Tina Tower [00:00:20]:
So the reason I'm bringing Matt on is this episode will go live the day after our 20th wedding anniversary. And I like mat. Yeah, you have known me not being an entrepreneur. I was 18 when we met, started my first business at 20. But our whole life has kind of revolved around my business journey and everything that that has bought. So I thought it would be an interesting one because women ask me a lot of questions all the time about how it works when we've had that little bit of an unconventional life. And so I wanted to do an ask me anything episode. And we've got some really great questions that have come in.

Tina Tower [00:01:01]:
One that I am really happy we didn't get is a question I used to get a lot when I was traveling, which is, how do you do what you do and not feel guilty? Or how do you deal with the mother guilt? Nobody has asked that question. Yay, team. I love that.

Mat Tower [00:01:15]:
I'm interested to hear the questions.

Tina Tower [00:01:17]:
I know. All right, you ready? So some of them I've asked people if they're questions for me, if they're questions for you, or if there's questions for both. So. And some of them are anonymous, so the good questions tend to be anonymous. There was some that I was like, yep, yep, I see what. But they're good questions, so I'm glad people have asked them. Okay, so this is. Jody has asked this for both of us.

Tina Tower [00:01:42]:
How do you juggle the parenting with the business I have? This is a long question backstory for Jodie. I have ADHD and I'm autistic. I have two kids under 12, one autistic and one with type 1 diabetes. Their needs vary on any given day. I run a therapy practice with one employee and would like to expand, but also my kids are my biggest priority. My husband has his own business in a trade which is doing well, but he's working five days a week. I don't know how to work effectively and efficiently during school hours or with kids home sick around medical appointments. Do I get more help in the business? I'm still learning to manage cash flow.

Tina Tower [00:02:17]:
I have a lot of referrals, and I could work full time twice over if I had the capacity and the desire. What do I do?

Mat Tower [00:02:24]:
How old are the kids again?

Tina Tower [00:02:25]:
Kids are two kids. Under 12.

Mat Tower [00:02:28]:
Deep.

Tina Tower [00:02:28]:
Yeah, it's deep. Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:02:30]:
Just wait it out.

Tina Tower [00:02:31]:
Yeah. I mean, I think that. So young kids is a tricky juggle. I think for us now, life has gotten exponentially.

Mat Tower [00:02:41]:
Yeah. It seems different.

Tina Tower [00:02:42]:
Easier than when they were young and Jodie. Cause your kids have extra needs to what our kids had to. It's harder. It's just harder. Like I. One of the sayings I hate is every woman has the same 24 hours in a day. You have a lot less hours than I have. I just like.

Tina Tower [00:03:02]:
We'll start with saying that we almost can't even like.

Mat Tower [00:03:06]:
Yeah, you can't.

Tina Tower [00:03:07]:
It's a lot.

Mat Tower [00:03:07]:
We're not the ones to ask for that one.

Tina Tower [00:03:09]:
Yeah. Because if your husband's working full time, you're working full time. You've got kids with extra needs as well. It's tough. So I know that that is not helpful, but I want to give you that validation in there as well because. Because you're doing it tougher than what a lot of people do. But what I would give you is. So the balance is the one thing that I would say is seasons do change, so easier times are coming on the horizon.

Tina Tower [00:03:34]:
So you go with the current season that you're in now. How can you best utilize the time to actually enjoy it? And so there's not something. I know you've got all that ambition in you and your business is going so well. Like you said, you could fill it twice over. I would look at hiring people if you can, with your. Because you've got a service based business therapy practice. So if you can hire people, hire people to buy some of that time back and then you can ease more into it later. But I would just ebb and flow and know that this too shall pass with the seasons.

Tina Tower [00:04:04]:
I mean, we worked very differently when the kids were young to. When they were like that middle age. And then now that they're teenagers, everything changes.

Mat Tower [00:04:12]:
Yeah, it's just like, it's almost for us. Like I can't even remember. But sitting there after thinking about the question a bit now, I'm like, oh, no, you are really deep then.

Tina Tower [00:04:19]:
Yeah, yeah.

Mat Tower [00:04:21]:
Like now. And it changes so quick.

Tina Tower [00:04:23]:
So quick.

Mat Tower [00:04:23]:
Yeah, yeah. So nearly at the end of the super.

Tina Tower [00:04:28]:
Yeah. Once they get into high school, it gets way easier and you'll get some of that time freed up. But I would look at leveraging your time as much as possible. Can you buy back some time, get those employees in so that you can be with the kids a little bit more? Why they need you so Much. Or get some help in the home as well. If you're at the practice, can you hire a cleaner? Can you get some food delivered? Like looking at things like that to leverage as much as possible. Yeah. Okay.

Tina Tower [00:04:52]:
Our next question is anonymous for Matt. And this person has asked, how do you manage working and life together without driving each other crazy when you're in such close proximity every day?

Mat Tower [00:05:08]:
I don't know. I guess you do. I don't know. I don't really. Do I drive you crazy?

Tina Tower [00:05:14]:
No. Sometimes.

Mat Tower [00:05:15]:
Sometimes.

Tina Tower [00:05:16]:
Rarely. I would think I would drive you crazy more than you drive me.

Mat Tower [00:05:20]:
No, you just are craz.

Tina Tower [00:05:24]:
A little bit. Little bit.

Mat Tower [00:05:25]:
I guess we've got the same goals and you just try. I just try each day to do the right thing. Really. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not a overly.

Tina Tower [00:05:37]:
That is such an unhelpful answer.

Mat Tower [00:05:38]:
Well, it is. No, but because everyone's different. Like some people might be big characters and have all their needs and that might drive people crazy. Where I guess for me, I'm not so much of a. I'm more laid back and don't really have that.

Tina Tower [00:05:50]:
You are the most tainted, easygoing guy I've ever met. Yes.

Mat Tower [00:05:53]:
Out there. Personality that could be. Do that. So I don't really. Yeah. And I think like even like say, when we do have issues with the business, you just try to work through them and understand that you're just doing your best to.

Tina Tower [00:06:04]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:06:05]:
To figure it out.

Tina Tower [00:06:05]:
There's different things that I think we've put in place so that we don't drive each other crazy. Like we know. So I do think we spend a whole lot more time together than the average.

Mat Tower [00:06:14]:
This is very true.

Tina Tower [00:06:15]:
Married couple. We have breakfast together every morning and our tea or our coffee in the morning. And then we have lunch together and we have dinner together.

Mat Tower [00:06:24]:
Not always dinner, seldom dinner.

Tina Tower [00:06:26]:
Always dinner on the weekend. Dinner at different times to the rest of the family now. But yeah, we do spend a lot of time together. But I know we could never have an office in the same space.

Mat Tower [00:06:37]:
No, you gotta be in different offices.

Tina Tower [00:06:39]:
So I think over time we've probably put things in place like either consciously or unconsciously to make sure that's a big one.

Mat Tower [00:06:46]:
Actually, you can't be in the same office space.

Tina Tower [00:06:48]:
Well, I know some people do. There's some people that work together all the time. But that would. If I heard you on Zoom Calls.

Mat Tower [00:06:55]:
Yeah, you can't do that.

Tina Tower [00:06:55]:
Or you heard me on like, you'd go Nuts.

Mat Tower [00:06:57]:
You can't. Yeah, you're supposed to. And then you're in and out. Like, I don't sit down for as long. I got to get up and move around and.

Tina Tower [00:07:02]:
Yeah, yeah, you're always moving around and doing that. Whereas I can, like, get stuck in. In the work and I resent having to go to the bathroom. I'm like, I'm in the zone. I am there. So I think that how we don't drive each other crazy is we've worked out what we both need to be happy and we kind of just let.

Mat Tower [00:07:20]:
The other one do it.

Tina Tower [00:07:21]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:07:22]:
Just trust the other one's doing the right thing and then just leave it.

Tina Tower [00:07:24]:
Yeah, I would say that. Okay. So this is Catherine Main for Matt. Catherine's put her name on there. Hi, Kathryn.

Mat Tower [00:07:31]:
Hi, Katherine.

Tina Tower [00:07:33]:
What did you need from Tina, if anything, during the times at the beginning, this is a good question. When you might not have fully understood the demands or the energy requirements that it took to start the business in the first place, when it wasn't fully paying you, for example, did you appreciate Tina explaining certain processes in great detail so you could understand why it was required or necessary, or was it simply enough for you to know it was part of the bigger picture? So what I am reading here is Katherine's probably at the beginning of the business journey, which is hard, and trying to figure out how much she needs to explain to her partner or how much to keep to herself and how much to go through it. But I think that is a great question in terms of. Because I think it's good for everyone to know.

Mat Tower [00:08:19]:
It is hard.

Tina Tower [00:08:20]:
That was the beginning is tough.

Mat Tower [00:08:21]:
It is really hard at the start and especially, like, I mean, you bring it up in a few of the podcasts and it seems an eternity ago now.

Tina Tower [00:08:30]:
20 years.

Mat Tower [00:08:30]:
Yeah. But at the start, and we were funneling, like, I couldn't work anymore and we had the young kids, and I didn't have any money because all of the money was gone. And it's like. So it's a big shift from, like, going from when you. We had all the money in the world because you were just working. You're keeping it for yourself. You go and surf and you live in the. And then all of a sudden, before he met me.

Mat Tower [00:08:53]:
And then you're pumping all of the money and all the time and effort. So the thing is, that is really hard. And the only way. There is no, like, right answer. But it's like, communicate. It's like you've just got to a bit of it's blind faith, but you've got to have communication and talk to each other, and you gotta come to that decision together to go, look, this is the end goal. And, you know, just have to. You essentially just have to give into it and go, yep.

Mat Tower [00:09:24]:
It is hard. I agree.

Tina Tower [00:09:26]:
How did you deal with. Cause I'll take you back. Because I remember it vividly as we. As we do.

Mat Tower [00:09:31]:
Have you morphed the memory, though?

Tina Tower [00:09:32]:
Having morphed the memory in my mind. But when we were at that beginning stage and, you know, it was really difficult in terms of, you know, I wasn't making enough money, so I pumped all the money back in. I didn't pay myself anything for the first couple years, really. And then would get yours to. To, like, shortfall that, and I say yours and mine and that sort of thing, which I know some people be like, what? It's all.

Mat Tower [00:10:00]:
Yeah. But it feels like that at the start. Yours and mine. But as time goes on, it's just like, ah, you just got to go in it together.

Tina Tower [00:10:06]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:10:07]:
And if you just go in it together. Actually, that was one of the biggest shifts we made, I reckon. Like, even remember you said, he's. I've had a bad day. He's going to leave me now. And you'd have all those dramatic things. I'm like, 10 years, I'm like, I'm not going anywhere. Like, settle down.

Mat Tower [00:10:19]:
And I was like, once you make that connection to go, hang on, we're both in it in all things, then it's all right. Everyone knows the backstory by now.

Tina Tower [00:10:29]:
Maybe not.

Mat Tower [00:10:30]:
He's just tuning in at 300.

Tina Tower [00:10:31]:
Maybe they could be. They could be your fans. This is the first.

Mat Tower [00:10:36]:
There is no Matt fans. Let's just. Let's just be clear and say let's.

Tina Tower [00:10:40]:
There is, but for the little bit of the backstory there. So my childhood was, like, without getting too into it, was filled with abandonment. And so I did truly believe when we got married, it was only a matter of time before he would get enough of me and leave me. And so we did spend the first 10 years of our relationship. Really, anything that Matt would say to me that wasn't pure adoration, I would go, all right, this is it. Well, I knew the time would come. You don't love me anymore. Like this.

Tina Tower [00:11:10]:
Like, what a nightmare to deal with. I mean, really, I can't believe you didn't leave me at that.

Mat Tower [00:11:15]:
Oh, my God.

Tina Tower [00:11:16]:
But he would have to assure me all the time that he was gonna. And it took me about 10 years to actually believe you, that you were. That you were staying. And now I'm like, I'm a peach, I'm a cat. Like, why would you go anywhere? But. So I think that's a little bit of the backstory.

Mat Tower [00:11:32]:
So you had to say yourself to yourself, not to me.

Tina Tower [00:11:33]:
I did. I very much did. Yes, very much. But so the memory that I said that I want to take you back, that I think could be helpful for Catherine is there was a stage. I can't remember actually how far we were through it. I don't know whether it was reach days or whether it was begin bright days. Maybe it was with licensing. I can't remember at what stage it was, but it was like in that first.

Mat Tower [00:11:54]:
It was in. That was the tougher area where there.

Tina Tower [00:11:58]:
Was like money and money out, but it just, like it was just flowing in and out and we didn't get to like, catch any of it. And I do remember at one point you saying, there has to be an end point.

Mat Tower [00:12:08]:
There does, yeah.

Tina Tower [00:12:08]:
Like, you can't keep going on like this. You've got to make it work or you've got to call it quit.

Mat Tower [00:12:13]:
Well, yeah, it's funny, like the podcast edit we just edited.

Tina Tower [00:12:16]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:12:17]:
Well, last night was the one about that point of the green flags, red flags and that sort of thing. So I guess for who was it Catherine? For Catherine as well. Like, they're probably in that thing. You've got to decide, is it worth it? So I guess for them and for us, we had to go, is it worth it? What's the long term goal? How much longer can we sustain this? And we did. We had that thing going. How much longer we stay? I couldn't sustain it much. I'm like, but what did you need.

Tina Tower [00:12:44]:
From me in order? Because I remember constantly going, like, trust me, it's all going to work out. It's all going to be there. Because I had such a vision in my mind. But at the same time I was going, I hope it does.

Mat Tower [00:12:55]:
Even not that long ago, I still had that same thing.

Tina Tower [00:12:57]:
But I wanted it so badly.

Mat Tower [00:12:59]:
Yeah, you wanted it so badly.

Tina Tower [00:13:00]:
So how did you. Because I think this would really be helpful to not only Catherine, but a lot of women that are at the beginning stages when there's no guarantees.

Mat Tower [00:13:07]:
There's no guarantees in life at all.

Tina Tower [00:13:09]:
Whether you're going to make it or whether you're not going to make it. But how did you get on board with my vision when there was no clue of whether or not it was going to Work.

Mat Tower [00:13:17]:
For me, it was like you wouldn't have been happy any other way. So going for knowing that your happiness like even now, like if you were to go earn this money, working for someone, the thought of that for you, it's not an option. So if, if for that, like coming to that point and that realization where there is no other you, like your happiness is tied to this. And so it's like, well, it's gonna make you happy. Whether we fall or fail or succeed, your happiness will only come through that process. So it's like, right, I just go with it and it's no point.

Tina Tower [00:13:52]:
What about your happiness at that stage?

Mat Tower [00:13:56]:
I don't even know. I can't even remember. Life is stages like that. Like you just have to at some point, like they're probably in that knuckle down stage, you know?

Tina Tower [00:14:06]:
Yeah, obviously.

Mat Tower [00:14:07]:
And so you look at it down the line and you can read every self help book and all the other stuff and it's like, oh, gritty now and it'll pay off later and no one knows everything's a gamble. But would you rather gamble on the, the, the one that you see now of, well, yes, we're going to do this and we're going to just mosey along and do the same thing or take the gamble and take the risk and go with it. And for that brighter future where at.

Tina Tower [00:14:29]:
Least if you fail, at least if.

Mat Tower [00:14:30]:
You fail daring greatly, there you go. Like at least you've tried for it and at the end you can go, well we tried, you know.

Tina Tower [00:14:36]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:14:37]:
And you, you'll go back to your thing. Oh, you won't be in that drudgery.

Tina Tower [00:14:40]:
In that job, just going, I would always rather try.

Mat Tower [00:14:41]:
Yeah. Would you be there going, oh, you know, it's always out there like this. I think that's a miserable existence going, I wish I had a try, you know.

Tina Tower [00:14:48]:
Totally.

Mat Tower [00:14:49]:
Whereas if you're looking at going, we tried, at least we gave it a shot.

Tina Tower [00:14:52]:
And there's plenty of things we did try that did not work out.

Mat Tower [00:14:55]:
Yeah.

Tina Tower [00:14:56]:
And then plenty of things that did.

Mat Tower [00:14:59]:
You better give it a go. Really.

Tina Tower [00:15:00]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:15:01]:
And then if your happiness is tied to giving it a go is better than your happiness is tied to the result, you know.

Tina Tower [00:15:08]:
And Catherine, I will say, like what information was required? You've asked that. I have always over communicated. I probably still do now in that I, not only with Matt, but our kids as well in that I will always tell them what's going on in the business because I think that it makes it more part of a team rather than mum is away doing something separate to the family. It's like we do this together. Like we're all that team unit. So I think that's helpful too. So. Oh, this is a very like a little bit similar.

Tina Tower [00:15:35]:
So Anonymous, this is asking for me. Do you recommend getting someone to manage income and expenses if that's not my area of strength? Very simple answer for that one. Yes, 100%. Okay. Anonymous for that. Tina is obviously super ambitious. Has she always been that way? And have you. This is why this question is Anonymous.

Tina Tower [00:15:56]:
That's inverted commas. Tina is obviously super ambitious. Has she always been that way? And have you ever wished she would morph into a normal wife?

Mat Tower [00:16:06]:
No. No, I don't. No. That's exciting. I like the fact that you're ambitious. I never know what's gonna happen and that's good.

Tina Tower [00:16:14]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:16:15]:
Yeah. Have you always been ambushed? Yes. And that relates back to ages ago that your happiness would definitely be tied in the pursuit. So I think it's still the pursuit and the excitement and the new is still always going to be the way. And I think that's good. Yeah. I don't wish you were anyone else. No, I don't wish you were normal at all.

Tina Tower [00:16:33]:
I mean, what is normal?

Mat Tower [00:16:34]:
There's enough normal right here. Take the non normal over there.

Tina Tower [00:16:38]:
I do think that your life would be so boring without it.

Mat Tower [00:16:42]:
It'd be very simple.

Tina Tower [00:16:43]:
Okay. Oh, this is a good question, Anonymous, for both of us. You seem really happy. Are you really? And if you are, what do you think has made that work?

Mat Tower [00:16:58]:
Do we seem. Oh, so we seem really happy? Are we really happy? Yes, we are. Have we always been really happy? I think. And how do we make it work? So I think how we make it work is just trying to do. It's that little things trying to do something for each other each day that makes puts a smile on their list. Each day I go, I'd at least try to do one thing that makes you smile and I'd never try to do anything that annoys you. Just a list.

Tina Tower [00:17:28]:
Like what?

Mat Tower [00:17:29]:
Oh, I'm not even going there. Even bringing up the list is probably on the list.

Tina Tower [00:17:34]:
Hey, I'm lovely.

Mat Tower [00:17:36]:
You are lovely. But the.

Tina Tower [00:17:38]:
And then I do have very short tolerance and patience. And so you know what? I do think that you would actually have a list only mental.

Mat Tower [00:17:45]:
I don't have like a notes file or an Excel spreadsheet or anything. It's taken 20 years to learn it.

Tina Tower [00:17:50]:
Yeah. There would be things on there. I know. And I apologize for that. But also, I am intolerant of some things. Yeah, yeah.

Mat Tower [00:18:00]:
But at the same time, there's lots of things that you find super enjoyable. So it is really easy to make you happy because there's lots of things that make you really happy. Have we always been happy? No. Every marriage goes through ups and downs. Everyone would experience that. But. But we're in a great spot at the moment. The kids are older.

Mat Tower [00:18:17]:
We can see the last 10 years.

Tina Tower [00:18:20]:
Have definitely been the freedom.

Mat Tower [00:18:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's once, I think even for the kids, once they hit seven and they knew not to cross the road. And. And for me, that was a mat. Like, you knew they weren't going to. You didn't have to watch them every second to injure themselves. Like, that was a massive shift.

Mat Tower [00:18:36]:
And then coming out of. And fine. We've always. If it hasn't felt right, we've never been shy to just go, this isn't right. Let's move or let's change it or whatever.

Tina Tower [00:18:46]:
You know, I do think that's a big thing.

Mat Tower [00:18:48]:
So we don't. We don't just stick in the drudgery just because we're afraid to change.

Tina Tower [00:18:52]:
Because I reckon. So we've been married 20 years now, and I think there's probably been like three. Yeah. Like three times that we've had like a month or two where we've been very misaligned and out of sync and had to work that out. And I think what we've done really well is not stay in that, but being really. We talk well to each other in terms of this is what I'm thinking, this is what I'm feeling. What are you thinking and feeling? And then working out, what do we need to change? And we will change. We will change radically.

Tina Tower [00:19:26]:
Anything. Like, that's how we moved interstate. That's why we went on our round the world trip. That's why we finished our round the world trip earlier. And I mean, that's a good example. Like. Like one of those funky spots was when we came back from around the world trip because we were supposed to be gone for two years and you were like, we're cutting it short. I can't keep doing this.

Tina Tower [00:19:43]:
I was like, but this is my once in a lifetime. I'm never gonna end.

Mat Tower [00:19:45]:
Don't make it end.

Tina Tower [00:19:46]:
And you made it end. And it was that decision of, you know, like, one of us has to win and one of us has to lose in those decisions. And so sometimes that's you and sometimes that's me. But I think we're pretty good with the compromise and going, okay, once that decision has been made, how do we then recalibrate, make our new normal?

Mat Tower [00:20:08]:
But I rarely. And I do rarely put my foot down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm like that one. I still stand by that. That had to happen.

Tina Tower [00:20:15]:
Yeah. I would have kept going, but it is like, you are very easy going with the day to day. But I mean, so many people would look at our relations and think, I just make all the decisions. But a lot of the big decisions we either make together or they're made by you because you're very easy going with everything. But when you are a yes or like a no, there's no changing your mind.

Mat Tower [00:20:36]:
Yeah. This is true.

Tina Tower [00:20:37]:
Yeah. You're like, I'm not available, but you're.

Mat Tower [00:20:41]:
Not available for things too. Like if it's not there.

Tina Tower [00:20:43]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think when that happens, we. We bounce well.

Mat Tower [00:20:49]:
Yeah, we bounce well. We're very. Yeah. In that sense, we can adapt anywhere and just.

Tina Tower [00:20:54]:
Yeah, yeah.

Mat Tower [00:20:54]:
Deal with it and move on. Yeah. I think the. Yeah, yeah, we are happy. No, we are. I think it probably.

Tina Tower [00:21:00]:
Well, I like you very much. Yeah. And I do think that the happiness is also, you know, down to letting the person be who they want to be. Like, you know, you saying that I always had to be a business owner and do that, and so that's something I had to do. I know our marriage has probably got a lot happier since I got a lot more personally content as well. Yeah, that's been a big change, you know, the last few years, especially where I'm feeling really healthy. We've had more money than we've ever had before, and I know that that's not. But because that's given me that personal satisfaction, it then has allowed me to kind of take that overflow of the bucket into our family as well.

Tina Tower [00:21:43]:
Whereas I think you've always been so contented with such a baseline that it's been.

Mat Tower [00:21:48]:
It's been harder for you to find your. Find your contentedness.

Tina Tower [00:21:52]:
It's been harder for me to find my contentedness.

Mat Tower [00:21:54]:
Yeah.

Tina Tower [00:21:54]:
Yeah. I had a lot higher expectations of life, of the kind of bigness of life that I wanted. I wanted to leave where I think, like, you would be happy if we were in like a simple apartment somewhere or maybe just. Just the first home that we ever bought, if we just stayed there forever and you just surfed every day and just like lived a happy, simple life and like, you would still be happy.

Mat Tower [00:22:17]:
Yeah.

Tina Tower [00:22:18]:
Yeah, yeah.

Mat Tower [00:22:19]:
Everyone should find their contentedness, find their happy spot.

Tina Tower [00:22:22]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:22:22]:
And that's gonna be different for everyone.

Tina Tower [00:22:23]:
But ladies, if it takes you more to be contented, that's also okay.

Mat Tower [00:22:26]:
Yeah, that's fine. Whatever it takes for you to be content. But go for it. Really.

Tina Tower [00:22:30]:
Alright, this is a random question from Tricia for both of us.

Mat Tower [00:22:33]:
Hi, Trisha.

Tina Tower [00:22:34]:
What is the weirdest thing you've eaten? Where and why? Okay, I know my answer, but I'll get yours first.

Mat Tower [00:22:41]:
Really?

Tina Tower [00:22:41]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:22:44]:
Well, I mean, everyone's done the snails and all that sort of stuff. There's lots of weird things I've seen. Eaten china for sure.

Tina Tower [00:22:52]:
And what have you eaten?

Mat Tower [00:22:53]:
What have I eaten? Probably that camel pasta was up there.

Tina Tower [00:22:57]:
That was the one that I was gonna choose. So I'll paint this story, right?

Mat Tower [00:23:01]:
Camel pasta has to be.

Tina Tower [00:23:02]:
I'll paint the story. So we were in Mongolia. We were on our around the world trip and we had been driving through the Gobi Desert for four days to that point. So I had hired us like a driver in the Gobi Desert to go around Mongolia and give us like the real authentic.

Mat Tower [00:23:19]:
Oh, but even in that hut thing. So I remember the camel thingo. But in that night that we spent in that butcher's yurt.

Tina Tower [00:23:27]:
I've got to get the story out. Or the story.

Mat Tower [00:23:29]:
But in that thing, we ate some weird stuff that night with that family. What was that one?

Tina Tower [00:23:33]:
I don't know. Even. I don't even know. I don't even know.

Mat Tower [00:23:34]:
I'd drunk too much vodka. Didn't know by that time it's the only way to get stuff down.

Tina Tower [00:23:37]:
Yeah. And so we were driving around. What we didn't know was that our guide didn't speak any English. And so by day two, luckily I had trail mix in my bag, like a 1.5 kilo of trail mix, which is something you should all carry if you're ever gonna travel around the world to third world countries. And so that's what we were living off. And we were like gesturing with our hands. It's like food, water, like, when are we stopping? And there was nowhere. It was the desert.

Tina Tower [00:24:03]:
We had crackers and trail mix until day four. We pull up to these huts in the middle of nowhere and there's the Mongolians all out the front, super excited. They hadn't seen many white people before. So we came in and they ushered us into this hut. Everyone's super, super excited. And they've opened the door to this hut and hanging up is the camel or a sheep no.

Mat Tower [00:24:32]:
You're thinking two different nights, though, too. The camel pasta was the night after.

Tina Tower [00:24:35]:
The lady that I gave my hat. So we walk into this tent and there is an animal upside down with blood all dripping out of it that they had been bleeding to cook for us. And so they walk in all excited. I walk outside, throw up everywhere. The kids start crying. We're like, what do we do? They're looking at us going, what do they do? Matt's like, we're being so offensive culturally. So then they start offering these silver bowls filled with vodka. Tricia was not expecting this answer.

Tina Tower [00:25:06]:
Silver bowls filled with vodka to drink straight vodka. And so I'm, like, just thrown up. I don't know what to do. I'm so tired. I'm so worried for the kids. I don't know what's going on. Matt just starts drinking the vodka with these big Mongolian guys.

Mat Tower [00:25:21]:
They're nice guys.

Tina Tower [00:25:22]:
They were lovely. No one spoke in English, but it was fun. And on that table was, like, curd.

Mat Tower [00:25:29]:
Goat's milk. There was heaps of that stuff.

Tina Tower [00:25:31]:
It was stuff. It was stuff that I can't quite name eyeballs. They had everything on there, whatever it was. And then when we ate, we ate some sort of, like, gristly. There was dirt in the.

Mat Tower [00:25:47]:
That was the following night, or the night after, where Cohen made friends with the goat.

Tina Tower [00:25:52]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:25:52]:
So. Because that night, I can't remember, we ate lots of weird stuff. But I'd had so much vodka, I didn't know. But then the next, we had to.

Tina Tower [00:25:57]:
Sleep in the same tent as the butcher's tent.

Mat Tower [00:25:59]:
But then the next night, the driver couldn't drive because he was too drunk. Yeah. So I had to drive that thing. And then I drove it all day to that joint where we ate that. We got there and we're eating the past. We didn't know what it was. And I was like, what is it? And she pointed at the camel and we've gone, yeah, right.

Tina Tower [00:26:15]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:26:16]:
There was some interesting times. But in China, we ate heaps of weird stuff too. But it wasn't as. It didn't feel as bad.

Tina Tower [00:26:21]:
It was not as bad. Yeah, it was not as bad.

Mat Tower [00:26:23]:
There was. They ate heaps of weird stuff.

Tina Tower [00:26:24]:
There was a lot of weird stuff. Yeah. A lot of stuff that we're not accustomed to eating. Let's say it that way.

Mat Tower [00:26:29]:
The frogs.

Tina Tower [00:26:30]:
Okay, okay, okay. That's enough on that question. All right. C.J. has asked this for Matt. I understand. Oh, okay. We always love a question that starts.

Mat Tower [00:26:42]:
With, we go long on time. It's 45 already.

Tina Tower [00:26:44]:
That's okay. We can go long on this episode. Everyone's all right. So this question starts with, I hope this is not rude or insensitive.

Mat Tower [00:26:54]:
Okay.

Tina Tower [00:26:54]:
C.J. for Matt. I understand you work in the business, so I hope this is not rude or insensitive. You work for Tina. What are the best and worst parts of working for your spouse? I ask because I hope one day my partner will work in the business with me. And I want to know what we need to be aware of that may be problems, but also what we look forward to sharing when I am his boss.

Mat Tower [00:27:17]:
Yeah. So I guess that'll be a real personality trait for both of them. Like, I don't know them personally, so it can be. And there was. I think the matriarch thing is. Has to be dying out, and it's nowhere near as bad as it was. So there's a lot of people that would be like. Would feel that they were emasculated from working for their wives or whatever with their wives.

Mat Tower [00:27:41]:
But, you know, if he's confident or if you're confident in yourself, I mean.

Tina Tower [00:27:46]:
When you first stopped working, you actually had. I won't name who it was, but a very, very close family member said to you, how are you going to still feel like a man?

Mat Tower [00:27:55]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tina Tower [00:27:56]:
Is it real?

Mat Tower [00:27:57]:
It is. It's very real. And also, I've had guys say to me, when they've asked what I'm doing, they've gone, thank God one of us blokes is winning. So it all comes down to, I think that's perception of self. And if you. You'll have for them, for him, your husband or whoever, a lot of perception from people around. And so if you don't take that to heart, then that's okay. So there's all that dynamic that you've got to contend with or not contend with, and who gives us stuff if you're winning anyway? And then if they're.

Mat Tower [00:28:29]:
So that's fine. If you can overcome all of those things, that's probably the biggest hurdle to start with.

Tina Tower [00:28:35]:
And then secondly, making sure you're sure in yourself.

Mat Tower [00:28:38]:
Yeah, sure in yourself. And you're happy and you understand the goal of it.

Tina Tower [00:28:41]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:28:41]:
And then it's going to be especially easier for him to work with you if he doesn't like and hates what he's doing now. So if he's. Let's. I don't know, he does whatever. Let's say he's a mechanic and he's scraping blood off his knuckles, the skin off his knuckles every day. Or he's a laborer or whatever. He could be a freaking banker, you know, and just hates what he does. But he's looking forward to that change of pace.

Mat Tower [00:29:08]:
Then it. As long as you're open and communicating, you're not. Like, if you're talking down to him going, you know, like, if you're talking down in that sort of attitude, that's never going to work. But at the same time, that wouldn't work if I was your boss or if you were anybody's boss.

Tina Tower [00:29:21]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:29:22]:
So, like, if you're fact. If you're openly communicating evenly and I reckon if you're managing anyone or talking to anybody, you should always be equally talking. And just matter of fact, this is what we have to do.

Tina Tower [00:29:36]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:29:36]:
So that would work if you were bar manager at a job or if you were the CEO of whatever. Like, as long as you're talking to someone respectfully. Respectfully, then it shouldn't matter who your boss is, really.

Tina Tower [00:29:47]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:29:47]:
Anyway, Yeah.

Tina Tower [00:29:49]:
I agree and think, like, there's no getting around. I am the boss of the business. But I also think that we're a good team in that it works for a lot of couples that I know that work well together and ones that don't work well. What the commonality seems to be is different. Like opposite, complementary skills. Like, we are very different people. In terms of what I'm good at, you're not good at.

Mat Tower [00:30:15]:
Yeah.

Tina Tower [00:30:15]:
And what you're good at, I am so not good at. No. And so there's very clear, divided lines in going the parts you do. I'm like, oh, God, don't give me that life. And the parts I do like. You would hate to have all of the responsibility that I have, but also the constantness, like the sameness of your day to day would make me want to stick forks in my eyeballs. But you love it and I love the unpredictability. And so I think you've got to play to your strengths.

Tina Tower [00:30:45]:
And so like you said, as long as. As long as you're happy in your roles, I think. I think that's going to be.

Mat Tower [00:30:51]:
Yeah. Happy, respectful and. Yeah. And just communicate and talk about it. Say, that didn't work. That did work. What do you reckon?

Tina Tower [00:30:57]:
It'd be much harder if you're like, you know, you're both great at sales and marketing.

Mat Tower [00:31:01]:
Yeah. And then no one wants to do the other bit. That'd be hard.

Tina Tower [00:31:03]:
Like, I think if you've got opposite skills, win a chicken dinner. Okay, so Karen has a question for Matt. What's something you've observed about Tina's drive or resilience that most people wouldn't know?

Mat Tower [00:31:18]:
It's bigger than they think.

Tina Tower [00:31:21]:
You've got my drive or my resilience?

Mat Tower [00:31:23]:
Both. Yeah. Your drive, what drives you, has probably changed and evolved over the years. That's definitely something people wouldn't know. And as for your resilience, what's it.

Tina Tower [00:31:38]:
Changed to and from? I'm like, I want to know the answer to this.

Mat Tower [00:31:44]:
What does your drive change? So what you used to drive for has changed to what you're driving to now. Like you used to drive. Your drive used to be a lot more external validation.

Tina Tower [00:31:57]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:31:57]:
Whereas your drive now is a much more internal validation of like what. What you feel and what you want instead of what you think you should go for. For other people's approval. Approval. Yeah. Whereas now it's a lot more intrinsic, I guess is the word. Would you feel the same?

Tina Tower [00:32:17]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:32:19]:
And then resilience wise, the resilience is. Yeah. Is so much more. So even. Like, let's look at the last conference where there's so many things that we know every time going into these, there's so many things that you just can't control and that are going to show up on the day and you have to put on the face and smile and carry on without going, which I can tell. And you're up on stage, everything looks fine, but inside I can still see and know that you're just at things completely out of our control. And so that's your resilience.

Tina Tower [00:33:05]:
Conference for people was on day one. We had rooms, including breakfast, and a whole lot of our members had gone to get breakfast and they were told their breakfast wasn't included. So they were all like turned away.

Mat Tower [00:33:17]:
From the breakfast, the venue, and then.

Tina Tower [00:33:19]:
They would, you know, obviously people were mad at me and different, different things with that I was blowing up at the hotel. They then were like, we'll tell everyone now they can come and get breakfast. The conference had already started. So think, yeah, things like that are little things, but happen all the time.

Mat Tower [00:33:35]:
And it's that resilience that has been going on for so long that people just think it all looks perfect and would think that, that if something was happening because your emotions generally show in your face so much that inside you're just burning up. Like, that's a good example of resilience that people don't see and would think.

Tina Tower [00:33:57]:
That they can just get on with it.

Mat Tower [00:33:59]:
You can just get on with it, you see. Oh, get on with it. Despite so many factors that aren't going your way that you want to control so much, but your resilience still just pushes. Yeah. So I guess that's probably the most relevant recent sample.

Tina Tower [00:34:15]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:34:17]:
I don't know if that helps, Karen.

Tina Tower [00:34:19]:
Yeah. Okay. Karen has asked a question for both of us as well. You've both challenged stereotypes in your roles. How has this shaped the way that Kai and Cohen see relationships, careers and success?

Mat Tower [00:34:33]:
Well, they told me they were going to listen to this one, so depending on my answer, I'll edit it out or not.

Tina Tower [00:34:37]:
Hi, boys.

Mat Tower [00:34:39]:
How has it shaped them? Well, you never know. No one knows with any of their kids how it's going to shape.

Tina Tower [00:34:43]:
When I was going over this last night, I actually asked Kai.

Mat Tower [00:34:46]:
Oh, did you?

Tina Tower [00:34:47]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:34:47]:
What did he say?

Tina Tower [00:34:48]:
Yeah. So. Well, I want to hear your answer.

Mat Tower [00:34:50]:
Okay. How has it shaped them? Well, I. Well, I mean, you never know because you don't know how they would have shaped out otherwise. And that's the same for all of us raising kids. All of us that have obviously been raised. We don't know what it would have been otherwise. You just dealt the hand and that's how you go. But that being said, he does.

Mat Tower [00:35:13]:
They both are open. They're very open and they see. I guess that could have been because we've both spoken about so many things and everyone tries their best to raise their kids as best they can, but they're very open to seeing like taking that step back and observing roles and people and families and everything for what they are and going. They're coming from their spot and I'm coming from mine and just accepting things for that sort of thing, you know, and not worrying about. I don't think they worry too much about the stereotype that much.

Tina Tower [00:35:47]:
No. And I think kids in general these.

Mat Tower [00:35:49]:
Days, they're way smarter than we will ever be.

Tina Tower [00:35:51]:
They're so much more welcome than what we were and more individual. But what I think is for our kids, I mean, they may go traditional roles like I don't know. But I know that what they, what they know to be true is it doesn't matter whether you're male, whether you're a female, whether you're non binary, like what you are, it doesn't matter. Everyone should just do what they're good at and what they're going to enjoy. And I think both of them feel confident in chasing that.

Mat Tower [00:36:22]:
I reckon as this generation, I see bright future for the generation in that generation coming up. If not giving your stuff. Who anybody is.

Tina Tower [00:36:30]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mat Tower [00:36:30]:
Like you're. Yeah.

Tina Tower [00:36:32]:
There's not like men's roles.

Mat Tower [00:36:34]:
Yeah. Like it gives you stuff. Yeah, yeah. And I even reckon there's a lot more even in. Yeah. Like, I think it's a very fair bit of an older school, that generation of, you know, male. I reckon there's a lot of people coming up going, oh, you know, blokes going, I would love to not be the one, you know. Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:36:52]:
And women going, I would love to be the one. And if. I reckon if. For the questions even further along, like, further back, like, if you're just doing what's right for you, don't worry about anyone else, you know, And I think our boys are thinking a bit more like that too, you know, just do what's right for you and don't worry about it.

Tina Tower [00:37:07]:
Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Okay. Betsy has asked us a question. Betsy Block. Hello, Betsy.

Mat Tower [00:37:13]:
Hi, Betsy.

Tina Tower [00:37:14]:
You've moved 11 times, which Matt is so happy about. What's your signature moving day skill? This actually the answer to this actually explains our roles in life so incredibly well.

Mat Tower [00:37:29]:
Signature moving day skill. Okay, I'm interested to hear this from you. Tell me.

Tina Tower [00:37:33]:
So I hate packing up houses. Hate it. I love unpacking houses. I love setting up somewhere new and exciting and doing the whole. Whole unpacking. I wouldn't say you.

Mat Tower [00:37:48]:
I hate both of those.

Tina Tower [00:37:49]:
You hate both of them. But you can do the pack up and then you kind of abandon ship once all the boxes get into the new place. And also. So I would say I have a Monday board. I have Monday boards for everything in my life. And I have a really good spreadsheet with moving day, like everything that needs to be done. Change of addresses, like all of the different admin that has to happen. And I really quite.

Tina Tower [00:38:16]:
I enjoy, like, the project of it.

Mat Tower [00:38:18]:
And the project of it. Oh, my God. And you do love setting up a new space, though.

Tina Tower [00:38:23]:
I'd love it. But I'm not moving out. So one of the things we moved into our new home last November and Matt and the kids both said to me, for the love of God, for the love of God, can we stay put for somewhere for a while? And yes, I'm going to get all of my excitement from travel.

Mat Tower [00:38:40]:
You heard it first.

Tina Tower [00:38:41]:
You heard it first. Yeah. All of my excitement, travel. I will not move our house unless, like, one day our boys live overseas. Kai's going to college in America. If Cohen somehow happens to. If Cohen. So Matt's face right now happens to be Overseas.

Tina Tower [00:38:58]:
Then why would we stay where we. Where we live? You know, like, we'll. We'll readjust the situation when our kids have kids and are settled. But until that point, we will stay for it next week. What's your signature moving day skill? That makes it easy.

Mat Tower [00:39:11]:
It doesn't. Nothing makes it easy. Nothing there is.

Tina Tower [00:39:15]:
Okay, I would say, like, getting food delivered on the day.

Mat Tower [00:39:18]:
Food delivered. Get a removalist. Don't do it yourself.

Tina Tower [00:39:20]:
We did it ourselves so many times.

Mat Tower [00:39:23]:
Yeah, don't do it yourself.

Tina Tower [00:39:24]:
Even painting. Like, the last two houses have been the only ones that we need.

Mat Tower [00:39:28]:
When you're young, paint away. When you're young.

Tina Tower [00:39:29]:
But how hard was that? Painting's hard.

Mat Tower [00:39:31]:
And if you get a good painter, they actually do a better job quicker.

Tina Tower [00:39:35]:
Of course they do.

Mat Tower [00:39:36]:
So you just pay a painter. Yeah, pay a painter.

Tina Tower [00:39:39]:
Easy to say when you've got dollars in the bank. When we had no dollars in the.

Mat Tower [00:39:42]:
Bank and there was no option.

Tina Tower [00:39:43]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:39:45]:
Give yourself. So don't try not. What we did last time was really good. Don't do the move out. Move in on the same day. Like, if you can.

Tina Tower [00:39:53]:
That was good.

Mat Tower [00:39:54]:
If you can move out, get the removalist to hold it. Or removeless do it.

Tina Tower [00:39:58]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:39:59]:
They all offer a service to hold it for a week and then go to the new house and do whatever you need to do to it.

Tina Tower [00:40:04]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:40:05]:
Like, even if it's two days or whatever. Like, that's a good thing to do.

Tina Tower [00:40:08]:
Yeah, it was good.

Mat Tower [00:40:09]:
Get food delivered. Yeah, yeah, just. And don't move.

Tina Tower [00:40:15]:
Okay, I have our final question. This is a question from me, from you. I put this question in because I was interested in the answer because that's what this episode is about. So my question is, what is the worst and the best thing about being married to an entrepreneur?

Mat Tower [00:40:36]:
The best thing is you just never know what's gonna happen. It's good. It's exciting. You get to do lots of cool stuff that you wouldn't do otherwise. And the worst thing, as you didn't.

Tina Tower [00:40:50]:
Mention, like, the money.

Mat Tower [00:40:53]:
Well, that's the excitement part, isn't it? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, you can't. Well, it's easy to say. It's down the track, but. No, I don't know. I'm sorry. Do you want to mention the money? I didn't think of the money.

Tina Tower [00:41:07]:
That's interesting. Like, that would be my answer. I would be like the excitement. The money.

Mat Tower [00:41:12]:
Yeah. Well, I guess that gets to do the cool things to do.

Tina Tower [00:41:14]:
I guess I do what I do, though.

Mat Tower [00:41:15]:
But I guess the money allows us to do the cool things.

Tina Tower [00:41:17]:
It does. Yes.

Mat Tower [00:41:19]:
Yeah. And it's the Simon and the doing different things. I couldn't, I couldn't have done just to sit at home. As much as I like a simple life, I couldn't have just done the Monday to Friday 9 to 5 drudgery. I would have, I would have just done a part time job or something like that.

Tina Tower [00:41:31]:
Does it work for you that you get like a super exciting life but you don't have to ideate it?

Mat Tower [00:41:36]:
Yeah, yeah. Going up and down but mood wise is the challenge. But you have gotten much better in the recent years. So that was really challenging was the ups and downs and the.

Tina Tower [00:41:49]:
It's hard in the beginning because everything.

Mat Tower [00:41:51]:
The beginning is hard. It is, yeah.

Tina Tower [00:41:54]:
It's like you're, you know, one bad month away from not being able to pay your baz. Like it's really stressful which is hard not to let that affect your roller coaster of your emotions.

Mat Tower [00:42:05]:
For someone who's very risk adverse. That's the hardest thing with the entrepreneur of yourself is that I'm like, no, yeah, just take the.

Tina Tower [00:42:16]:
So I will share something super personal here that I think will be helpful for people is so. Because our risk profiles are so different. When we saw a financial advisor, mine out of ten was a nine and Matt was a three. And so what we had to work out was throughout our journey, what makes you feel safe while I get to do all of the different things that I do. And so one thing that we started probably like 10 years ago now was a separate bank account for you. So we have all of our money shared but Matt has his own separate bank account that money goes into every week that he can save, invest how he likes but just like have that safety net to know that if I do something crazy, which I have done in the past and gone like balls to the wall, let's bank it all and let's risk it all. That he's got that safety net in there. And I think that helped you a lot.

Mat Tower [00:43:13]:
It is. And we've used that from time to time too. So it's helped us both.

Tina Tower [00:43:16]:
In the early days, there was a couple of times that I did things and I was like, shit, I'm short. And then you could be like the knight in shining armor and be like, I have my safety net. I was like, great, I will take that. Thank you. Let's start building that up again and don't tell me how much you've got there. So yes, that that worked. But I can imagine that that would be hard for someone really risk averse.

Mat Tower [00:43:36]:
Yeah. So. Yeah. So then it. Oh, no.

Tina Tower [00:43:42]:
Oh, sorry. It went off. It's still going. Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:43:45]:
Still recording in an hour. Yeah.

Tina Tower [00:43:46]:
Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:43:46]:
I don't know why I did that. The. Yeah. So it's just that it's the excitement that's good. And that's why I guess it's looking more like more exciting and happier now. Because the roller coaster and the anxious times are less now.

Tina Tower [00:44:04]:
The stakes aren't so high.

Mat Tower [00:44:04]:
The stakes aren't so high. And settle into it a little bit more. Yeah. The excitement. So it's like more. It's coming from a. More excitement and what excites you than a. Yeah.

Mat Tower [00:44:16]:
Point of view.

Tina Tower [00:44:18]:
Well, that is the end of all of our questions. Matt, congratulations on your first podcast interview on the show. You want to become a series regular.

Mat Tower [00:44:27]:
I can't imagine anyone would want to see me again. Thank you and all the best.

Tina Tower [00:44:31]:
Thank you and good night. Thanks so much, everyone. Have a beautiful day.

Mat Tower [00:44:36]:
Thank you.