Join business strategist Tina Tower as she explores how to build your empire by packaging your expertise into online courses, speaking, content, podcasting and credibility.

Tina has over 17 years of experience in starting, building and selling companies, she's a speaker, teacher, mama and world traveller.

She's unapologetic about living an intentionally big life and if you want too, this show is designed to show you many different options to help you gain clarity over YOUR version of awesome.

Episode Takeaways 

  • Transitioning your side-hustle into a profitable online course 
  • Why your current messaging could be costing you customers
  • How Anita completely sold out her course with a single email
  • The right words to use that will build connection with your followers and convert them into loyal customers
  • Tips for 'connecting the dots' for you audience so that they see no option other than to buy from you
  • The #1 most powerful question you need to ask your audience each launch



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Show transcription 



Hello, and welcome to episode 189 of her Empire Builder podcast. Welcome back. If you are an active listener of the podcast, you know that we've had a bit of a break for the last few weeks, unintentionally. I had batched a whole heap of episodes. But I had left a break for one, I'm giving you a bit of behind the scenes of the podcast now. So I'd left a break for one to record while I was in Hawaii, at the end of my launch, to kind of talk about the end of launch and a month in Hawaii and how all that went.

And totally honestly, I finished launch, I ran two retreats. And I was completely and utterly exhausted, like, so like, I have no words left, I have no words left, I have nothing else to give to the world I am done. Which I'm sure you can relate to. It's kind of you know, when you're in that stage where it's all outward, it's all you know, people are asking questions like a fire hydrant, Tina, how do I do this? Tina? How do I do that, you know, how do to help me with this. And it's just like give, give, give, give, give and Oh, performance, performance performance.

And then I got to the end of it. And I was like I need to go into a cave for a little bit. And I have not really done that. I've been doing a whole heap of things behind the scenes with my members, with all of our new members and a whole heap of extra bonus sessions and all of that sort of thing. And so it's kind of taken all the energy.

And it's one of those things that I go: I totally believe in consistent content. I think that part of the reason that I've been so successful in online business is because I consistently show up for my audience. But then on the flip side, I also believe in quality over quantity. And I got to the stage where I'm like, You know what I could find this in, of course, I could hit record on a podcast, I could record something about the month. But it kind of wouldn't be that value packed. I would have been a bit like I was a shell of my normal human in case you don't want to be doing a podcast episode while you're feeling like I have nothing left to give to the world.

And so I didn't, because I thought you know what better to not put something out how fast and wait until I'm feeling good to go again.

And so what that did, though, was the following episodes, I had kind of recorded like Welcome to Episode 190. Welcome to Episode 191. So I couldn't release them because it had a gap in between. So I literally just put it on pause for a few weeks, so I could recover.

And this is my point is that we can change our rules as we go. If you need a break, take a break. Because you know the world needs what you have. But it needs you to show up with all of your energy and as your best self. And sometimes we can put so much pressure on ourselves. I know I do that quite a lot. And it's okay to go. Hang on. I can just take a rest this week. You know, let's not take ourselves too seriously. We're not heart surgeons, we're course creators. And we can have a couple weeks break if we need to.

Anyway, so I am back. Welcome back. Did you even notice? That's the interesting part. Life goes on. Hey, anyway, I'm back now. And now we'll be powering through right, right until 2023. We're all mapped out. So I'm very excited to be back. I'm very excited. I do have some pre-recorded ones. And I've got some great interviews coming up for you. And I also have some great blank ones in there for me to record as I'm going through the different growth things that I'm going through in our business in real time as well, which I like to do. This year, I have run seven events, a lot of events. Probably why I'm so bloody tired, right. It's a lot of peopling and I've loved it. But now our focus has switched to everything that I want to build in the next 12 months, and it is all focused on my team. I really want to get team right. Team has been one of my hardest parts of business growth. I am a spectacular small business owner in that I'm a DIY. I can do a whole lot of business stuff myself, but to a point and then you really can burn yourself out if you don't get the team right.

And so my whole focus so that our business we can continue to grow her Empire Builder. We can continue to serve people with really fantastic products and services. I need to get that A-team on board. And so my whole whole mission over the next 12 months, is to get that right and to put all of that in, because I think if I get team, right, that's going to increase the customer experience and going to be able to get all of these people instead of just everything falling on my shoulders, and being able to have spectacular delivery across every touchpoint throughout our organisation.

So that is all coming. And I've left a few gaps to kind of share that journey along with you as well. Because I know that for a lot of people, it's hard to get. I think there's a hard point in getting business off the ground.

And then once you kind of hit that first six figures, you've got your product and service dialled in, and then it's just how do we market more? How do we scale? How do we get that growth? And then you hit seven figures, and it's like, Well, shit, I need some time back, I need to buy some time, how do I actually do that part.

And being a CEO of an organisation, being a team leader is a whole different set of skills to what is required to create a business from nothing. And so it's a big learning curve. And I know you'll be going through that too. So I'll be sharing that.

But let me get into today. Because today, I have such an incredible interview for you. I have Anita Siek. And I am so excited to bring Anita to you because she is such an incredible, incredible human, one of the smartest women I have ever spoken to. I have admired her for years since she's been in online courses. Her branding is so beautiful. Her words are so beautiful. Her energy is so beautiful. She's just such an incredible human. And I had her as a guest expert inside Her Empire Builder in September. And she knocked my socks off, I was just like, this woman is so smart.

And she gave me one tip that literally will make us 10s of 1000s of dollars. And so I wanted to then interview her on the podcast and share with you in a wider audience as well. Because Wordfetti is her online course, and it is open now! So if you're listening to this live, go straight down into the show notes and click that link and check out wordfetti because I think that clear messaging and getting your words right and your brand all aligned is so important in online business. I really think you could be the best expert there is and be so good at what you do. But if you don't know how to express and communicate that to your perfect customer, then you're not going to get the traction that you deserve.

Anita has got that part so incredibly dialled in, and we're talking a lot about that today in terms of copywriting, but also in her rise of online business and how she went from being a lawyer into this total online course creator.

Let me give you her proper bio because she's so awesome. So Anita is a lawyer turned brand strategist and copywriter and founder of wordfetti - a human-centred brand strategy and copywriting house, specialising in helping brands create a dent in their industry through the power of psychology and words, with a big passion for words, language and how the delicate choices of how they can trigger different emotions and feelings in a reader. Her and her team at wordfetti are on a mission to spread the power of one of the most powerful tools we have as humans in igniting world changing ideas, provoking thought and driving impactful action.

In her spare time, you'll likely find her with her husband and two Shih Tzu pups Valachi and Hatchie on an adventure somewhere, or trying to finesse her skills as a wannabe painter. Anita’s work has been featured on form Forbes Mumbrella smartcompany, thrive and more.

So all of that is to just say, and he does really, really smart and really, really good at what she does, and has one of the most beautiful looking websites I have ever seen. She really knows how to communicate, really knows how to take things that are sophisticated and difficult and break them down really simply so that everyone has the chance to implement that into their own business. So I know you're gonna get a lot out of today's conversation and I hope you love it.

All right, enjoy!

Main episode

Gorgeous in Anita, welcome to her Empire Builder podcast.

So excited to hear it's gonna be fun!

I know, I know. We've already spent about 20 minutes chatting. Okay, so I love when I have super awesome course creators on to kind of go back to the beginning and get a bit of your origin story for any of my listeners that are cray-cray and haven't heard of you before? Because, one, I think you're spectacular. I think you're one of the smartest people I've ever come across. And also one of the most beautiful websites I've ever seen in my life.So tell me about your journey into cost creation because you started as a lawyer, right?

Yes, I did. That was probably around six, six years ago. So yeah. 2017. So I actually started, I'll take you guys down memory lane, down memory lane, the whole journey.

I'll paint the picture a little bit here for it. So, I did the traditional thing, went to uni and all of that I studied law and psychology. And I then did again the traditional thing and became a lawyer. My parents were very traditionally asian, where they were like “doctor or lawyer!” so they were pleased. So yeah, I did that. I didn't last long in the corporate world. I stayed in corporate for probably around four years, you know, climbed up the corporate ladder. But there was always something -that feeling of something was missing. I had this role that I had in mind where I was like, if I got it then happy days! And then in four years. I got it and I'm like, oh my gosh is okay, is this it?

For so many people's version of success is that we go for a thing. And then we get there and it's like, oh, oh, hang on reevaluation.

So I started little businesses on the side. Back then Wordfetti was actually my third side hustle.

What was the first one?

I knew you were going to ask me. I was a photographer. I literally just took photos for as a hobby. And I still do. But then people were just like, Oh, can you take photos from a wedding? Can you take photos for this event? And I'm like, Oh, for sure. So I did that for maybe a year and a bit. But then I was like, I love photos. And I love taking photos. But I don't think that this is something I can stick to. This is not my thing. I then started a business with my mom. And this is going to be an somewhat an epic fail from the beginning because mum loves plants. And she's got like a rain forest in her house. She's so good at keeping them all alive. And I so am not good at keeping them alive. But you know, I was like, why not? So she would create these beautiful succulent, like plants with beautiful, very cool with little bridges, like just really cool, succulent plants. And we actually did pretty well for the first three to six months. But then what was again, not epic and not great was people would ask me all these questions about plants and how to keep their plants alive. And I'm like,

I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I killed her Aryans. Do not ask me. So, you know, it became one of those things where I'm like, Mum, this is a cool idea. And we had some fun, but I really don't think it's something I can do and sustain. It's just not my passion. And then I started Wordfetti as a side hustle. Purely because of my love for words. I love language. I grew up in an environment where I was surrounded by four or five different languages.

And this is what's interesting, I would go to shops and our count in Chinese but translate it in my brain in English. So it's a love language. I love words and how words can trigger different feelings and emotions. I could say, “Tina, I'd like to work with you” versus “I'd love to work with you.” It's like such a small tweak in language, but completely different vibe. So yeah, I started growing Wordfetti. I left my corporate job.

And where the digital course element came in? It was actually January 2020, so not that long ago. Nope. Yeah. So. So I yeah, I started 2020 without knowing the pandemic was on the other side. I was like, Yep, I am going to start a digital course. And I will need to create some space to do this. Because we had a lot of service clients. So we had to dish him or the service arm. I let go of a lot of my service clients back then to create the space because I want to do it, right. Anyway, pandemic came in March, after I had just started to no to a lot of service based clients. I'm like, Oh, my gosh.

So there was maybe a good few days or weeks of being like, what have I done? Because I have just said no to all these projects, because I needed space to create this course. And then the pandemic happened. And it ended up being such a, you know, blessing in disguise because everyone was at home. And it saved saved the business. And also it just completely opened my eyeballs to this whole new world. I love it. Like it is so much fun.

So I want to ask you about your transition stage. And I know a lot of the lovely ladies that listen to her Empire Builder podcasts are kind of already in online courses, or just starting in their journey in online courses and still have their traditional businesses going. In that whole transition, if we go down memory lane, when you were trying the different things and going from photography to the killing the terrarium to into Wordfetti, or like starting pre courses, but into the service spaces. Coming out of something that was so high achieving, like being a lawyer, were you hard on yourself about finding what your next thing was? And what did you let it flow and go “You know what, I'm just going to take my time”?, like how did you emotionally respond to that?

Yeah, that's, that's interesting. Yeah. And neither did not let it go or flow. I have an all or nothing mentality. I think I am someone who I love challenges. I love when things are actually hard. I also think though, the con to that is I think growing up seeing my parents work, the 15, 16 hours there is that narrative where it's like, it has to be hard. It has to be challenging. You have to struggle to do well. And I think so it's a pro in the fact that I feel like I can outwork anyone.

Oh, have the same emotional hang ups and problems. Yeah, we'll go. Do you know this is how ridiculous mine is. I was demonstrating just to segue here demonstrating like building Kajabi funnels, and I was like he and everyone's like, holy moly. Like it's like the cable is on fire. This is incredible. And then I had the idea to do like a 24 hour live of just creating Kajabi funnels, websites and Canva things and like everything from scratch in a whole business in 24 hours. I was like what fun that would be and then I was like that's a stupid idea

Oh my gosh, Tina that is hilarious. I resonate. I resonate. I'm like, Oh my gosh, this would be really right. I hear you I resonate 100%

You're out-working everybody you're getting into that. How did you go from one to another and know when it was time to pull the pin? And then what you were going to start next? Was Wordfetti always like simmering in the background. Or it wasn't until after the plans that you were like, You know what, I love words. I'm going to try this?

Yeah, I to be honest, first of all, I never thought I would get paid in a way to write because, you know, first of all saying that I'm a lawyer versus saying I'm a writer sounds for my parents. They were just like, oh lawyer sounds better. There's a stereotype that you don't really get paid as a writer. To be honest, I don't think there was like a key element. I was in my corporate job, and I just wanted, this was fun. This was fun for me. I remember leaving the job at like, five 6pm. Which, by the way, usually in government, you leave it like 4:59. But I am that person that's like, No, I was hungry, like, I loved what I did. But after work, I would come home and I would be energised, open up my laptop and be like, What can I do today? What can I share today? What client work? Or what story can I tell? And it was just through that.

I do want to say, though, to the listeners, I remember starting the business, putting content out there, and it was crickets for 10 months. So I didn't have leads. It was crickets for 10 months, like, but I still kept putting things out there because that was my creative outlet.

Well done. Well done. Yeah. So this was the service arm of it? Yeah. How did you keep yourself motivated through that part?

That's a good question. I think there's two parts to it. I think there's one part where because I had this corporate job that gave me the security and stability, I think, if it wasn't for that, so I'm all for creating, I firmly believe in creating businesses through side hustles, actually, in testing and playing. So there was one bit where I was able to be intentional with what I played and experimented with and threw out there. I think the other element as I'm talking about it right now, I'm like, I want to lean back into some of that energy now to where it was really just having some fun. It was an you would probably resonate routine, or where I think, once we get into that rhythm and momentum of growth, and it's always next, next next, whereas in that exciting beginning stage, where you're really testing and playing, it's all about really like, well, what gets me excited, what makes this fun?

Yeah, it's the lack of change. I think once you get bigger, like when you're starting, you can have an idea. And I'm going to try that I'm going to try that. And you can just experiment, which is fun. I said the other day, because I really want to make some short courses, like just short, bite-sized things. There's a lot of people that aren't ready for her Empire Builder yet, but just want to know, how do I start my podcast on Kajabi? Or how do I start my personal brand from scratch or all the things and I'm like, I want to create eight short courses. And everybody else in my orbit is like “Tina, you can't just throw eight short courses up, like, that's not the model that you're operating under,” and I’m like What!? We get to design our model, I create the model.

But also, that's kind of true. From a messaging point of view from all of that sort of stuff like we do as we get bigger, we kind of have to stay in our lane a little bit. Most of the time. So yeah, I totally get what you're saying. So when you transitioned into the online courses, because you came from the service space, I know for a lot of people, it's a really hard and very risky feeling to turn off something that's making you money to create the space with the hope and the dream that you're going to be able to create this over here. And I know people do it with service based businesses with dropping down to part time work, with cutting off private consulting, with all of that. Did you have like a really strict goal? Like “I've got a three month runway and if I reached this KPI, I'm good.” Like did you do that? Or were you just like, Okay, let's go like how did you work it?

Yeah, so I did give myself three months. So So I had actually sold the digital course before I had actually made it. So I work well under pressure. So in my head, of course there were those Gremlins, I was just like, oh my gosh, like, what if no one buys your course? Or what if like, Who are you to create a course anyway? Why would people learn from you? Like, there were so many of that. And I knew if I just, for example, said no to clients, which, you know, I've had to push away clients to be able to build this intentionally and strategically. And yeah, that was hard. And I can talk about that in a little bit in a moment. But I think for me, what helped me was actually selling the programme, selling the idea, and selling the course before I had actually made it. So I actually beta launched it. It sold out. I only had 20 people in my first round. It sold out within literally one email. Tina, it was one email. But I'm a big believer in nailing just one email. I've also launched different offerings literally with one email. But when that happened, I was like, Okay, I gotta make it. And I was, you know, told everyone was just like, look, were in the thick of it. I did, like intro calls and all of that, but I was like, Okay, I've got three months to make this happen.

So that was what made me literally do it.

Wow. And did you just drip it out? Week by week?

Yeah. So it's definitely gone through iterations, I delivered a lot of things live back then tested it, played with what its gonna look like that was a really fun cohort. And then once we wrapped that up, I then officially launched it in like a month later. And that was a really fun, epic launch because it was one of those things where I don't think people realised that I had created a digital course, because it was just one email I sent out and there's not a course. So that was a lot of fun. There was a lot of fun.

So over the last two years, because you've had wordfetti, and you've essentially re-launched the same thing over and over again. Yeah?

Yeah. So we've had so it's called the the programme itself was called Wordfetti Your Words, and it's launched four or five times, I have just actually re-recorded it recently. So it's one of those programmes where you join and you don't have to pay ongoing fees, but you get all future assignments and access to future calls. But it has been relaunched, like a number of times, and we're always testing different ways to different bonuses and all of that. But yep, a live launch.

How long does the actual costs go for? Tell me all of the things with wordfetti because we are open now! Give us the whole course. rundown.

Yeah. So word for your words is a I guess there's three parts to it. There is the hero curriculum, which is a total of 14 hours worth which dives into four key outcomes one, really nailing your messaging. I think when you don't you could say you do you teach people how to write copy, but people want to know what that's going to end up doing for them more conversions, the ability to standout. So you've got to nail your message. Nailing your messaging and uncovering what you're selling is the first part.

The second part then is really your brand DNA or in a way it's like, well, your brand voice. How do you sound? How do you speak? What are the buying motivators of your audience? I do use a lot of psychology in what we teach. So it's like memory and marketing. How can you create memorability? How can you use rhythm to create that stickiness in your content to things like so in the brand DNA, your voice? The brand values, to vision to your audience behaviours, why they buy why they don't buy?

Then we go into your digital HQ, which is your website. So we dive into how a homepage is different to an about page. Your homepage is like the airport terminal. This is not where you jam in all the things. This is where you direct people to get the information that they need on for example, your homepage. So how can we actually get intentional now with taking the brand DNA and actually applying it on your website, which is your really your shopfront digital HQ.

After that, then it's about amplifying it, which is really in socials too. So we dive into the four content channels, which is rented things like socials to like Instagram, LinkedIn, where we're renting space, really, then we go into owned, which is like emails what you own, then we go into paid ads and earned which is, for example, when people talk about you, that could be through PR, or whatever. So we look at these four key elements and how to distil it into a system that we go into.

And so there's part that's one key part the other key part is live mentoring calls. We do like literally live teardowns to hot-seats where we actually uncover what that might be for someone their messaging, tear down someone's website live and actually walk that through. I love a good tear down. And then the final bit is the community element, which I think it's pretty damn awesome to see all of the alumni is in there as well and they literally jump in and provide, you know, suggestions to ideas. None of them technically have to, but they just all jump in and be like, “Oh, what about this? What do you think about that?” So we've had members meet up for coffee, go travelling together. And I think that's and you would resonate with this Tina, to see your members and students form their own relationships and all work together. We've had so many collaborations and people working with one another is pretty damn cool. So yeah, that's that's what the three parts is to Wordfetti Your Words.

I totally agree seeing people build together and collaborate together is one of the best. But I think like the messaging, I think, is one of the most important parts that people do miss in terms of, we can get so close to our own thing and make so many assumptions. And there are so many people, I was talking to someone this morning, who I'm running this Kajabi challenge at the moment. And she was talking about her product. And I had to keep going back and back and back. Because it was like the leadership of the XYZ. And I'm like, Yeah, but what do you do? Because it's not the clear, concise messaging, but to her it made perfect sense in there. So what is your advice on how people can hone their messaging? When you know, we're so close to it? How do you know where right or not?

That is such a good point and good example. I've got I've got so many different tips. And that's like pinging in my brain right now.

I think one of the biggest mistakes I see businesses make is they do write from this lens of, oh, I need to make this sound awesome. I need to put in all the features and benefits. And don't get me wrong features and benefits are important. But at the heart of it, what people are actually buying the product or digital product or digital course for is much more than that. For example, if you're talking to a busy mama, creating a 100 page ebook as a digital product is Hashtag No, thanks, like.

So I think the first point is, we've got to start shifting the conversation from “Oh, what the heck, why do I say and how can I make the sound awesome and making it all about you”, to “Well, what is my audience actually need to see, he'll know and read in order to feel like this is the offer for them?” And that question? And the answer that comes with that will change depending on different seasons in that person's life. Throw in a pandemic, and that answer will be slightly different. Throw in maybe school holidays. And that might be something different. Throw in financial, that will be something different. And I think when we can start moving the seat from “Hi, I'm a business owner, and I need to make this all about me. And I need to tell you all the things that I want to move over”, and you then ended up talking, talking, talking and it goes over people's head, to “Well hang on a second. What does my audience right now in this very given moment need to see, feel no one read?”, then you can start looking at it from a lens of less about your product and all the things you want to tell them to,what do they want to feel? And what is the real value that I'm bringing into their life right now? Because at the heart of it, and that's what business is all about. We're in the business of problem solving y'all.

Yes, we are. I tell my sons that all the time, you get paid directly proportionate to the amount of problems that you can solve. But so we were talking before we hit record about my current obsession of this book. And for you listening, I was telling Anita how obsessed I am that I'm on my third read through of it. And I'm starting to be at one with Keith Cunningham. The books called The Road Less Stupid. And there was a whole section in there about, like marketing messaging and why people don't buy and you just touched on it so beautifully. And so I'm going to bring the book back into it because I'm obsessed right now. But his whole thing was the only reason people don't buy like the main reason that people don't buy is not that they don't think that you're good at what you do. Not that they don't think you've got the expertise, but that they don't have clarity and certainty that they can get the desired result and the transformation promise that you are promising that people will have. And that if your messaging isn't so clear, and they're able to picture themselves as actually achieving that. It's out.

Yeah, you have BAM hit the nail on the head, because it's a lot of the time, it's not what you say it's how you actually say it. If you can communicate it in a way that is not just oh my god, here are all the list of benefits. And here are all the inclusions like, one on one strategy session sounds nice, but what is that actually going to get you? Being able to connect the dots is is slick, yeah, he's hit the nail on the head, you've hit the nail on the head.

I know. But it's hard. Like, it's hard to do that with words. For a lot of course creators, they're really asking people to make fundamental changes to their lives in going - we're going to take you from point A to point B, which is not going to be pleasant. It's gonna be challenging, and hard. And you're doing all these things that you've never done before. Probably the main reason that I know people don't buy my programme and join her Empire Builder when I talk to them afterwards, which I'm going to get to because you gave me the best idea ever. The main thing is that people don't feel that they're good enough. They're like, “I'm not at that level yet. I can't do those things that those other people are doing.” And it always breaks my heart. And I feel like writing on the copy page, like, just do it! But that's what I find really hard. The messaging is going like of course you can but also I can't unpack everyone's psychology on a sales page.

100%. That is one of the biggest objections, right? I don't have the time. I don't have the budget. And by the way, when people say I don't have the budget or money, a lot of the time also money and pricing is so subjective to like, it's this is also a messaging element. Because if people can actually connect the dots between the price and the potential value, they're like, Oh my gosh, like paying X amount for Tina's course is a no-brainer. he mindset Gremlins are interesting, because we never know all of us, Because all of us have will have completely different. I might have a different mindset Gremlin to you know, you to anyone else. And I think usually here what's key is using and this could, for example, through live launching whether or not it's through live launch methods, or through emails, being able to actually combat those objections, and literally answer answering to that, or creating bonuses, right, that are going to combat that.

Yeah, I love that. Now, I need to say a massive thank you to you because well, one, you ran a superstar guest expert session inside her Empire Builder. But you dropped so many amazing things. But one of them was something that I hadn't thought of before, which, after you said it, I can't believe I've never thought of it before. But it was the “Why didn't you buy?” email. And I sent it straight after our guest expert session with you. And I was like, you know, how many people are going to fill this in. And like, if I get 10 to 20, this is going to be absolutely awesome. I got just over 100 responses, of which I cannot believe. And so for you listening, it's these five questions. I've used your questions. I gave you full credit. Because I'm like, You know what, I can't come up with better words than this. And the one question that was amazing was I don't remember exactly how you worded it now. But it was like “Other than price or other than cost, what is the main reason that you didn't buy?” The responses that I got were so insightful, incredible. Like, I'm like, okay, every podcast episode I can do now. Every like bonus thing. Every live coming into launch. Like, I've got it all there. And I was like, Oh my gosh, you're a genius.

Yeah, do it for every single launch. That's what gave me the idea to create all these short courses too. So I'm like, You know what, there's a lot of people here that yeah, they're not ready to take the leap into going “I want to create a multiple six figure online business.” They're like actually, I'd like to just start would be really cool. Okay, well, why not give them what they want? But I didn't know that I didn't know I had so many people that were asking me for all these things. I'm like, Anita, this is fabulous.

Oh my gosh. And that was like, 100. That's amazing. That's gonna be gold for content for just getting to know the audience even deeper.

And I love that and going like, how many? Like, do you recommend doing that on regular intervals for people to just ask their audience what they want and use their language?

Yes. So there's two parts to that. I always think, especially if you’re a digital course creator, actually knowing why people didn't buy and in particular, that question that you shared, “aside from cost? Why didn't you end up joining blah?” Like, because price is subjective. And that's the reason why right? If you firmly believe in the value that you deliver for the price, price shouldn't be the topic. Yeah. So I firmly believe as a digital course creator, definitely have a like, “why didn't you buy” element. That's a perfect conversation starter for the audience with you in the audience as well, in terms of, you know, going to your audience, and actually, you know, getting their language. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Like being able to run this with your existing clients to actually, there's so many different exercises that you can, or challenges and adventures, you can go on to uncover and actually literally excavate all the different words to use. Because copy, I believe, is assembled. It's not written. You take bits and pieces from that what people think, what people are scared of the language that they use to be able to bring it together, to be able to speak to them. That's what's gonna stick. Not fancy buzzword language.

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that so much. It's such a beautiful way of looking at it. I love it. Okay, so we're open now, until next Tuesday. So if you're too late, you can still click on the link and join the waitlist for the next time. But if not, jump on in. Because it's amazing. And really, I think like, all you need to implement is one thing, and you get the return on that. Like, it's such an important part and so incredible. But what are you most excited about going forward in your business?

Oh, I like this question. It's like a daydream. Um, you know what my motto this year is to live life in full HD mode? High definition. I think it was so often and you know, potentially listeners might resonate, like you sometimes put your head down, and I went through this phase too. Don't get me wrong, like, where it's like, 6pm you're like, Where the heck did the day go? Life is just passing you by. So I think what I'm really excited about, especially now that borders are reopening, I can travel more and freedom sits at the heart of what I'm about. Like, I think I'm just excited to really embrace that element of freedom to be able to work wherever. I'm excited about that. Because I love travelling and it's been hard not being able to travel. And I've been living vicariously through you and all your travels.

I've just got back. I think I've been to seven countries this year. I got carried away. There's no getting around it I just I just literally cancelled I'm supposed to go to a retreat at the end of the month and I just said I'm just gonna let it go because I got carried away, I'm really tired from all my travel and excitement.

But how good how cool like that the business our businesses have let us be able to literally have this the best elements of freedom.

It's so good. It's business in a backpack. We literally have business in a backpack.

Well, thank you so much for your knowledge for the gyms that you have given us. And happy launch week to you.

I'm having a lot of fun. I was we were just chatting. I'm just like, I feel really like chill, even in launch. You know? Thank you. I'm excited by it. I'm so excited.

I hope you break every record and make many people very happy and wealthy. Love it. Oh, thanks. Thanks for having me.

Thank you so much for listening to this Episode of her Empire Builder. If you loved it, please share it on Instagram for your friends and be sure to tag me @Tina_tower so I can say thank you. And if you really want to deliver me smiles, you can pop a review on Apple podcasts. I would love to hear from you. So if you have any questions at all, email me at [email protected]. And if you would like to work with me further, all of the free resources and my courses can be found at Now, I truly hope this podcast gives me so much value, and you can use it to dream big, plan well, and take massive action in building your very own empire. That's just for you. Have the greatest day